Mystery Industrial Loco

[Ashley Hill]

A short documentary recently shown on Talking Pictures TV called "Sound Steel" and made for Firth Brown steelworks Sheffield featured a clip of one of its internal locos. I'm not up on my industrials but have not seen a loco like this,any ideas what it was?

 

[John Webb]

The very low profile reminds me of the older locos used at the Beckton gas works which had to enter the limited clearance of, I recall, the retort houses where the coal was cooked to produce the coal gas and produced coke. I vaguely recall from geography lessons in the early 1960s that steelworks had their own coking plants, so was this loco (diesel or battery-electric?) used in a similar way?

 

[Royston Vasey]

The very low profile reminds me of the older locos used at the Beckton gas works which had to enter the limited clearance of, I recall, the retort houses where the coal was cooked to produce the coal gas and produced coke. I vaguely recall from geography lessons in the early 1960s that steelworks had their own coking plants, so was this loco (diesel or battery-electric?) used in a similar way?

Those torpedoes behind it are used for transporting molten steel, similar are still used on the European network between different plants and the signallers have strict instructions not to halt them under catenary, unless in a dire emergency, as they would quickly melt the wires!

Anyway you may well be right on the design being for coke oven use as the coke is “pushed” from the oven into wide trucks called pushing cars for transport to the furnaces, running down a railway below oven level. These trucks are much shallower than a typical industrial loco or those torpedo trucks, and I expect it was ordered with tight clearances in mind as you suggest.

This doesn’t help identify the loco but anyway...!

...

I'm not convinced it's a loco, by the way - doesn't look like it would have much traction!

 

[Spartacus]

Looks like a former steam loco possibly converted into some sort of barrier/translator vehicle.

 

[randyrippley]

some similarity with this North British built "Miner" loco
If its not one of these its very similar
some tech details midway down this page

Paxman and Diesel Rail Traction

Paxman, Diesels, and Colchester - History of Paxman diesel engines in rail traction applications from 1931 to the present day.

www.paxmanhistory.org.uk

North British 'Miner' Locomotives
During the 1940s and 1950s the North British Locomotive Co (NBL) built a number of small compact 0-4-0 locomotives, specially designed for use in underground mines. For some of these North British 'Miners', Paxman supplied its 6-cylinder RQE engine, rated at 100 bhp at 1,250 rpm and fully flameproofed for underground working. (NBL also built Miners with Crossley 100 bhp 5BWL engines and Leyland 75 bhp AU 350/16 engines.) The Paxman-engined Miner had a maximum weight of 15 tons, a maximum axle load of 7.5 tons, a maximum tractive effort of 8,400 lbs at 25% adhesion, and a maximum speed of 15 mph. Some 6RQE engines for Miners were fitted with Metalastic couplings to drive an SLM gearbox. Others were supplied suitable for driving a fluid coupling connected to a Wilson gearbox.

Thirteen 6RQEs were despatched to NBL in 1948 for Miner locomotives, several of which were supplied to National Coal Board collieries in northeast England. A further seven 6RQEs were supplied to NBL in late-1953 for mine locomotives. These were 'standard build' industrial engines which Paxman happened to hold in stock. It is not recorded whether, after despatch, they were converted to flameproofed types but this seems likely. (End-users cannot easily be identified as Paxman's RQ records have not survived.)

In addition, a non-flameproofed 6RQE was supplied for a locomotive for Rhodesian Copper Refineries, as explained above.

this page has photos of a preserved one in Canada

Account Suspended

 

[pdeaves]

I'm not convinced it's a loco, by the way - doesn't look like it would have much traction!

It looks to me like it might be battery powered. It reminds me of the 'flying buffer beam' at Quainton Road (see https://www.steamlocomotive.info/largeimage.cfm?which=4182).

 

[Royston Vasey]

It looks to me like it might be battery powered. It reminds me of the 'flying buffer beam' at Quainton Road (see https://www.steamlocomotive.info/largeimage.cfm?which=4182).

I did think battery loco too.

The small low cab looks very similar to that, err, thing...!

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think it looks like a diesel with low level controls at one end. There’s also something RSH about it to me.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Having watched the footage again it does appear to emit an exhaust.

 

[6Gman]

I think it looks like a diesel with low level controls at one end. There’s also something RSH about it to me.

Quite possible. I was thinking North British or perhaps Hudswell Clarke. The Sheffield area steelworks were quite fond of North British diesels.

Incidentally Firth Brown also developed the Bulleid-Firth Brown solid wheels as seen on Merchant Navy and West Country Pacifics. The patent was jointly held.

 

[madannie77]

This question made its way to the Industrial Railway Society discussion on groups.io, and thanks to the incredible knowledge on that group I can provide some answers, gleaned from an article in Industrial Railway Record Issue 169 written by Cliff Shepherd. This contains far more detail on the loco than I have included here as well as two images of the loco.

The locomotive is a Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0 diesel, works number 3913 of 1937, (actually completed after that company had become part of Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns). It had a Crossley DRL.4 direct reversing engine and was built to a very low height due to restricted clearances in the armour plate rolling mill and heat treatment furnaces at Firth Brown’s Works. It had a maximum speed of 6mph and weighed 22.4 tons.

It was initially numbered Firth Brown 25 and later became D1. It was scrapped in 1967.

 

[Ashley Hill]

This question made its way to the Industrial Railway Society discussion on groups.io, and thanks to the incredible knowledge on that group I can provide some answers, gleaned from an article in Industrial Railway Record Issue 169 written by Cliff Shepherd. This contains far more detail on the loco than I have included here as well as two images of the loco.

The locomotive is a Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0 diesel, works number 3913 of 1937, (actually completed after that company had become part of Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns). It had a Crossley DRL.4 direct reversing engine and was built to a very low height due to restricted clearances in the armour plate rolling mill and heat treatment furnaces at Firth Brown’s Works. It had a maximum speed of 6mph and weighed 22.4 tons.

It was initially numbered Firth Brown 25 and later became D1. It was scrapped in 1967.

Many thanks for solving this mystery. It's a shame it was scrapped. Was it unique or was there several at Firth Browns,or indeed did any other companies use them?