NET - The Forest Track Works (18th - 31st August)

[Jozhua]

Yet again NET wait until I have a week of annual leave to schedule disruptive work, which is going to make getting to the station a pain!

Work at The Forest scheduled between 18th-31st of August, presumably for track renewal. One hopes they don't opt to simply do an 'as like' replacement for the track already there, as they did with the Hyson Green Market curve last year, especially given how many issues The Forest track layout seems to have caused and how rather slow it is.

It is clear the current situation is untenable, however, as the southbound trams are very much having a battle navigating the S&C with some brutal TSRs and one of the platforms out of use.

I thought I'd keep this thread up and running so a) someone can potentially enlighten us with the planned scope of works b) to keep track of the progress and snap some nerdy pics and c) see how the replacement bus service does. (I remember last year's one was painfully slow)

Happy travelling trampas!

 

[MCR247]

Honestly I’d be surprised if they do change the layout unfortunately.

TSRs do seem to be popping up on the network more and more (or at least they stay for longer). Like the one SB at the start of the bridge over canal street

 

[BJames]

Forgive me for my ignorance but where are the trams being stabled on the other side of the block? I don't know how many are required for the Market Sq - Clifton/Toton service but are they going to be held on the Canal St bridge and perhaps somewhere else?

 

[MCR247]

Forgive me for my ignorance but where are the trams being stabled on the other side of the block? I don't know how many are required for the Market Sq - Clifton/Toton service but are they going to be held on the Canal St bridge and perhaps somewhere else?

Yes some are kept on the Canal Street bridge with overnight security, as well as stabling in the platforms at Toton Lane (space for 4) and Clifton South (space for 3). I believe during one block they stabled one in the Wilford Lane siding. They could also use the loop on University Boulevard but I can’t confirm if they have/do.

When the Lace Market block was on there would be trams stabled right from Weekday Cross end of the Canal St bridge all the way through to the old Station Street platforms. As the trams were only running south of the station they kept 3 or 4 as spares at the Weekday Cross end, but with them running through to the square in this one I imagine there’ll be spare trams kept in Toton and Clifton during the day

 

[BJames]

Yes some are kept on the Canal Street bridge with overnight security, as well as stabling in the platforms at Toton Lane (space for 4) and Clifton South (space for 3). I believe during one block they stabled one in the Wilford Lane siding. They could also use the loop on University Boulevard but I can’t confirm if they have/do.

When the Lace Market block was on there would be trams stabled right from Weekday Cross end of the Canal St bridge all the way through to the old Station Street platforms. As the trams were only running south of the station they kept 3 or 4 as spares at the Weekday Cross end, but with them running through to the square in this one I imagine there’ll be spare trams kept in Toton and Clifton during the day

Interesting, thanks - I had some vague memory of seeing these on the bridge during the Lace Market block but wasn't sure how it would work with through running to Market Square as well. Makes sense.

 

[MCR247]

Interesting, thanks - I had some vague memory of seeing these on the bridge during the Lace Market block but wasn't sure how it would work with through running to Market Square as well. Makes sense.

I suppose in theory there would also be nothing stopping them stabling trams (with security) at Royal Centre or NTU if nothing is being done on that part of the route, but I don’t think it has been done before

 

[DaventryRabbit]

I assume that Trams are going to turn back at Old Mkt Sq by doing an ECS Shunt via the crossover to the North of the Stop?

 

[MCR247]

I assume that Trams are going to turn back at Old Mkt Sq by doing an ECS Shunt via the crossover to the North of the Stop?

Yes they will. Always interesting to watch as trams have to pull right up to the signal at the traffic light junction to ensure the rear of the tram is clear of the crossover for the reversal. Seems very right

 

[Jozhua]

Honestly I’d be surprised if they do change the layout unfortunately.

TSRs do seem to be popping up on the network more and more (or at least they stay for longer). Like the one SB at the start of the bridge over canal street

You're probably right - track redesigns don't come cheap!

The northern section is nearing 20 years old and a fair few assets seem to be struggling a bit now. The southern section seems to be constructed to a much better standard generally, not as many tight curves/S&C, so fingers crossed less trouble there as they reach a similar age!

NET website contains a diagram of the work site. I believe the blue/black highlighted sections are those that are planned to be replaced:

It looks like the layout is not changing particularly at all, but maybe some fresh S&C will mean running at a slightly better line speed. Second year the trams have been closed for a week over August, wish they'd do some more renewals at the same time, been as they are likely using contractors anyway?

 

[tram21]

The bus replacement is painfully slow unfortunately

I'm surprised they found the money to do these works, and they definitely don't have enough to do any more, but the situation was unsustainable having to use the centre platform.

Hopefully NET can try and improve reliability over the summer, but what they need is new trams, something that isn't going to happen until the Incentros are quite literally in pieces.

 

[MCR247]

The bus replacement is painfully slow unfortunately

I'm surprised they found the money to do these works, and they definitely don't have enough to do any more, but the situation was unsustainable having to use the centre platform.

Hopefully NET can try and improve reliability over the summer, but what they need is new trams, something that isn't going to happen until the Incentros are quite literally in pieces.

What was the issue? I haven’t been on that bit of the tram for a while so I’d assumed they were routine track replacement work like we’ve seen at the market square and lace market in the past.

As for reliability, the really need to get on top of these communications issues. It might be best to hold off on new trams until any potential extensions get a bit more serious

 

[tram21]

What was the issue? I haven’t been on that bit of the tram for a while so I’d assumed they were routine track replacement work like we’ve seen at the market square and lace market in the past.

As for reliability, the really need to get on top of these communications issues. It might be best to hold off on new trams until any potential extensions get a bit more serious

The points stopped working so northbound trams could only use the centre platform (with a 5 kph TSR)

The reliability is so bad, and they need new trams within the next 10 years regardless of an extension, but I doubt it'll happen, making the reliability issues worse. The next couple of years will prove very interesting for the network.

 

[Robertj21a]

NET seems to be one never-ending tale of woe. Service disruption has been horribly common for a long time now and many people don't trust that a tram will get them there - and back.
For such a relatively small system it's going to need a lot of heavy investment asap.

 

[Jozhua]

The bus replacement sure does show the benefit the trams bring in journey times, but yeah it's basically unusable as is for my purposes. I'll just be paying extra to use the NCT buses to get into town until the works end. I'll message them tomorrow to ask if they do ticket acceptance on yellow route buses, but guessing the answer will be no unfortunately - despite them probably being much quicker for most people north of Wilkinson St. (Hyson Green has awful traffic).

When I was on the bus replacement, had almost exactly a 10 minute wait for the bus to leave Wilkinson St P&R. There was also a crash on Mansfield road blocking the street, that hadn't long ago happened, but we weren't zooming too much prior to this.

The points stopped working so northbound trams could only use the centre platform (with a 5 kph TSR)

The reliability is so bad, and they need new trams within the next 10 years regardless of an extension, but I doubt it'll happen, making the reliability issues worse. The next couple of years will prove very interesting for the network.

Not sure it's just the Incentros that are having issues, the Citadis units are also having some problems too.

I think the general consensus is 100% "low floor" trams are a bit more technically challenging to maintain/operate, versus the high floor units on Metrolink/Croydon, or the mixed low/high floor units in Sheffield. Generally introduces some extra mechanical complexity and reduced space for cooling or maintenance access.

My preferred design is definitely the Supertram style mixed height, combining accessibility with better operational characteristics. High floor is good for converting rail corridors, or systems with limited street running.

NET seems to be one never-ending tale of woe. Service disruption has been horribly common for a long time now and many people don't trust that a tram will get them there - and back.
For such a relatively small system it's going to need a lot of heavy investment asap.

As someone who frequently uses the system, it sure does have issues, probably more regularly than it should, but I still find it a dependable system. When it does go wrong, Nottingham has a pretty extensive and good bus system and they offer ticket acceptance in times of disruption. (although I have had mixed success using my season ticket).

Let's put it this way - I've never missed a train from Nottingham station because of an issue with the tram system, and I'm probably at around 100 journeys I've used the tram to get to the station for.

Honestly speaking, the amount of time I lose due to disruption is probably less than the amount of time I would spend extra waiting for vehicles on less frequent systems.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the general consensus is 100% "low floor" trams are a bit more technically challenging to maintain/operate, versus the high floor units on Metrolink/Croydon, or the mixed low/high floor units in Sheffield.

On a point of order, the original Croydon fleet is mixed floor but the newer Stadler trams are 100% low floor.

 

[Jozhua]

On a point of order, the original Croydon fleet is mixed floor but the newer Stadler trams are 100% low floor.

My bad! I assumed they were the same units as Metrolink - I got a bit confused

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/neighbours-struggle-sleep-due-noisy-8693301
Some reports of noise issues on the tram route due to ongoing works, as they are working overnight too.

To be honest, not quite sure why replacing like with like track is taking two weeks, guessing it being embedded in the road doesn't help!

Probably worth just putting ballasted/slab track in at The Forest, versus making it flush, given that road vehicles shouldn't be using it anyway?

 

[Trainfan344]

The bus replacement is painfully slow unfortunately

I'm surprised they found the money to do these works, and they definitely don't have enough to do any more, but the situation was unsustainable having to use the centre platform.

Hopefully NET can try and improve reliability over the summer, but what they need is new trams, something that isn't going to happen until the Incentros are quite literally in pieces.

I wonder if the money was stumped up by the council with Goose Fair approaching in just over a months time, a busy time for the network!

 

[Jozhua]

With the works complete for the past couple weeks, things seem to be going alright for now.

Not much changes on the track, very similar to Hyson Green curve swap. Fingers crossed there isn't another two week shutdown on the northern leg same time next year...

 

[tram21]

With the works complete for the past couple weeks, things seem to be going alright for now.

Not much changes on the track, very similar to Hyson Green curve swap. Fingers crossed there isn't another two week shutdown on the northern leg same time next year...

Things are going much better on the network.

I've been told there's engineering works in Beeston late-October to fix drainage problems caused by the burst water main flooding in April. Hopefully with it being a quieter part of the network during school holidays there shouldn't be to much disruption.