Never-used tickets

[Silenos]

Just out of curiosity, are there any statistics on what proportion of purchased tickets never get used? I appreciate that for a variety of reasons the figure is unlikely to be very precise but presumably the TOCs and the DfT have a good general idea?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd be interested to know if that statistic reduced when the new ticket format was introduced which made it clear refunds were possible. I'd expect prior to that a lot of people didn't know they were.

 

[Typhoon]

Just out of curiosity, are there any statistics on what proportion of purchased tickets never get used? I appreciate that for a variety of reasons the figure is unlikely to be very precise but presumably the TOCs and the DfT have a good general idea?

Not that I am going to come up with an answer but can I ask you to clarify what you mean by a 'ticket'. For instance, is a return one ticket or two? If it is two, I reckon there may be quite a lot. I 'lost' 15p a couple of weeks ago because I caught a bus instead of using the return from a station I had never visited so did not know where the machine was, would it be working, would it allow my Old Man's Railcard, would I have time to get the ticket if the train was due. It was worth it for the peace of mind.

 

[Deerfold]

Just out of curiosity, are there any statistics on what proportion of purchased tickets never get used? I appreciate that for a variety of reasons the figure is unlikely to be very precise but presumably the TOCs and the DfT have a good general idea?

I suspect there's no accurate ones.

I regularly make journeys where my ticket is not checked on board or by gates (and gates can't identify which paper tickets they've let through).

There's no way for anyone compiling figures to know if I used the tickets.

 

[bob007]

I’d love to know the figure, to present it when someone bangs on aggressively about fare evasion

I write this as my £45 unused advance just went to waste due to change of plans …

 

[yorkie]

Just out of curiosity, are there any statistics on what proportion of purchased tickets never get used? I appreciate that for a variety of reasons the figure is unlikely to be very precise but presumably the TOCs and the DfT have a good general idea?

There would be no way to identify how many go unused.

Data will be available on the proportion that get refunded, but unless a delay/cancellation occurs, tickets under £10 may not have any refund value. Also it can be a lot of hassle, so people may not bother.

There are also going to be some fraudulently refunded tickets that were actually used.

 

[Haywain]

I’d love to know the figure, to present it when someone bangs on aggressively about fare evasion

I write this as my £45 unused advance just went to waste due to change of plans …

That suggests that you're not bothered about fare evasion because you paid for a ticket you didn't use. I must be reading that wrong, or are you happy to pay for other people?

 

[bob007]

That suggests that you're not bothered about fare evasion because you paid for a ticket you didn't use. I must be reading that wrong, or are you happy to pay for other people?

You’re inferring it a lot from a few words.

To be honest I meant them as disparate thoughts.

by my first comment I meant the whole story needs to be looked at

Like government moaning about cheats while not mentioning how hard they make it to claim benefits and how many are unclaimed

 

[Haywain]

You’re inferring it a lot from a few words.

Not at all, I said I must be reading it wrongly.

 

[mangyiscute]

I’d love to know the figure, to present it when someone bangs on aggressively about fare evasion

I am confused how unused tickets are in any way related to fare evasion?
Unused tickets are the person has bought a ticket but then, for whatever reason, decided not to use it - not the railway's fault.
If the railway is at fault, a fee free refund should be claimed.
Perhaps there could be an argument about the amount of money the railways get from tickets that could have been refunded/delay repay claimed but people don't because they are unaware of this counteracting the amount of money lost to fare evasion, but I find most train managers are good at advertising delay repay on delayed trains and teams on twitter are good at advertising delay repay and refunds when tickets are unused due to disruption. Plus, I still don't think that this sort of argument should be used in any way to try and suggest fare evasion isn't an issue.

 

[swt_passenger]

You’d need to compare sales with numbers of actual travellers - but the latter data isn’t really collected accurately at all, as far as I can see.

When they work out station usage figures on the first pass they’re assumed directly from ticket sales, aren’t they?

But then Travelcard use is surveyed and presumably extrapolated, annual season ticket sales come with assumptions about holidays, and weekends are apparently not counted,

 

[LondonExile]

My most common rail journey starts at an unbarriered station and finishes at a station where the barriers are frequently left open.

When I use a paper ticket for that journey - there's frequently no record of use at all, only the record of sale.

 

[Haywain]

You’d need to compare sales with numbers of actual travellers - but the latter data isn’t really collected accurately at all, as far as I can see.

Not only is the data not collected, it wouldn't tell the whole picture because there are many people who travel without buying tickets - staff on and off duty, and others with various entitlements to free travel, along with holders of tickets that don't specifically relate to the journey being made.

 

[island]

For instance, is a return one ticket or two?

A return ticket is one ticket formed of two coupons.

 

[Wallsendmag]

A return ticket is one ticket formed of two coupons.

Although many industry figures are based on journeys where it would count as two

 

[Haywain]

Although many industry figures are based on journeys where it would count as two

Would this be a good time to mention single leg pricing?

 

[Silenos]

Not that I am going to come up with an answer but can I ask you to clarify what you mean by a 'ticket'. For instance, is a return one ticket or two? If it is two, I reckon there may be quite a lot.

Let’s say it’s 2, since as others have pointed out, industry figures often count journeys, and a return is 2 of those. And presumably, that doubles the opportunities for a journey not to be taken.

Interesting that the consensus seems to be that nobody has the faintest idea. Because, like you, my intuition is that it could be quite a lot, particularly for returns. The number of times I’ve finished a visit somewhat earlier than planned and decided that paying for an earlier train to go back rather than wait hours on a windswept and facility-light station was the better option is nobody’s business. Even looking at the number of reserved seats on my regular GWR journeys between Paddington and Tiverton/Exeter it’s amazing how many of them aren’t filled (and yes, maybe they chose to sit somewhere else, but all of them?).

 

[Deerfold]

Let’s say it’s 2, since as others have pointed out, industry figures often count journeys, and a return is 2 of those. And presumably, that doubles the opportunities for a journey not to be taken.

Interesting that the consensus seems to be that nobody has the faintest idea. Because, like you, my intuition is that it could be quite a lot, particularly for returns. The number of times I’ve finished a visit somewhat earlier than planned and decided that paying for an earlier train to go back rather than wait hours on a windswept and facility-light station was the better option is nobody’s business. Even looking at the number of reserved seats on my regular GWR journeys between Paddington and Tiverton/Exeter it’s amazing how many of them aren’t filled (and yes, maybe they chose to sit somewhere else, but all of them?).

It is, of course, possible to reserve a seat without buying a ticket - or to reserve more than one seat with a ticket (it's not encouraged, but quite easy).