New Blyth and Tyne route. What services are possible?

[PaxmanValenta]

On the Blyth and Tyne route what services could we see? I Know Ashington to Newcastle is the main one but will there be potential for services from Ashington to Carlisle or Ashington to York?

 

[mrcheek]

Initially they will want to keep them separate.
I cant see there being any new longer distance services, but I wouldnt be surprised if they combine some existing services later, so Ashington to Carlisle is a real possibility, maybe they might also combine with Whitby or Nunthorpe services

 

[norbitonflyer]

Durham coast is less likely than Tyne Valley as it would require a reversal

 

[AlterEgo]

Durham coast is less likely than Tyne Valley as it would require a reversal

No it wouldn't. Newcastle has a circular loop layout with two bridges available.

 

[A S Leib]

Ashington to York?

Do Northern have anything fast enough for York – Newcastle without the current timetable breaking, or could 80xs run to Ashington? (It was mentioned in a recent thread that LNER have used at least part of the route for diversions, but I don't know if calling at stations would be an issue.) There's also already roughly bihourly services from Morpeth to York (due to change next December; how apart from the TPE services moving to clockface two hourly I can't remember) and regular services from Newcastle, including at least 1 tph starting there, which I'd expect would reduce demand for direct Ashington – York services.

I'd be surprised if LNER or CrossCountry ran to Ashington if Northern's 2 tph stay; I think Carlisle or at a stretch some TPE to Liverpool or Manchester Airport (when revived) services would be likelier.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd be surprised if LNER or CrossCountry ran to Ashington if Northern's 2 tph stay; I think Carlisle or at a stretch some TPE to Liverpool or Manchester Airport (when revived) services would be likelier.

Ashington is never going to get any intercity service. What would the purpose be?

 

[A S Leib]

Ashington is never going to get any intercity service. What would the purpose be?

Emphasis on "at a stretch".

Redcar and Saltburn have Manchester services with a smaller population than Ashington and Blyth and having 2 tph to Darlington, although in that case the TPE's also the only direct service from York, and I don't know if there'd be the capacity to terminate that service at Middlesbrough instead.

 

[AlterEgo]

Emphasis on "at a stretch".

Redcar and Saltburn have Manchester services with a smaller population than Ashington and Blyth and having 2 tph to Darlington, although in that case the TPE's also the only direct service from York, and I don't know if there'd be the capacity to terminate that service at Middlesbrough instead.

It's just convenient to spin the services there - there isn't really the scope to do that with Ashington.

 

[xotGD]

An open access cowboy could step in and propose Ashington - King's Cross. That just happens to call at Newcastle and York on the way.

 

[Geeves]

Had a quick look at the timetable just over a few hours, edit - both trains only look to have a ten min turn around at Newcastle, I thought one sat for an hour, must've read it wrong! Apologies, so much scope currently

Not sure on the drivers but the guards sign/will sign Morpeth, Middlesbrough via the coast only and Carlisle via Hexham

 

[markydh]

On the Blyth and Tyne route what services could we see? I Know Ashington to Newcastle is the main one but will there be potential for services from Ashington to Carlisle or Ashington to York?

In short, no. Part of the proposals for the ECML timetable rewrite was a significant change to Northern services around Newcastle. Through running was to be abandoned on all routes. Whether this is still happening in December 2025 I don’t know.

 

[A S Leib]

Although I'd be surprised if more than 2 tph were needed, would services be able to be turned around at any of the new stations apart from Ashington?

 

[stevieinselby]

On the Blyth and Tyne route what services could we see? I Know Ashington to Newcastle is the main one but will there be potential for services from Ashington to Carlisle or Ashington to York?

Ashington to York is a non-starter – the ECML is basically full between Northallerton and Newcastle, with 5 trains per hour across LNER, XC and TPX, plus the occasional Lumo squeezing into a gap. It's why stopping patterns are so uneven and why Chester-le-Street gets a poor service, because it is impossible to path that many trains on a 2-track line and keep a frequent and balanced service to the local stations. There's no chance of adding in another regular service, especially with Northern not having any 125mph trains.

Ashington to Carlisle – sure, it's possible, but very unlikely it would be worth it. The vast majority of traffic will be to/from Newcastle, and beyond that it's likely that only a very small proportion will be going to any one station or route, so very little value in stringing routes together to form a through service. All that happens then is that you set up a situation where any delays or disruption are likely to spread rapidly across a much wider area, and you limit the opportunity to vary the timetable, frequency or rolling stock in the future. A stand-alone local suburban service from Ashington to Newcastle is almost certainly the optimal way to run the line, especially as it allows 3 trains to efficiently provide a half-hourly service with a sensible 5–10 minute layover at each end.

The one place that could potentially have merit to provide a through service to would be MetroCentre, but it isn't easy to turn trains there and it already has a fairly even 20-minute frequency to Newcastle, so in practical terms it would be tricky to do anything constructive there without throwing other services out of whack.

 

[Ghostbus]

Ashington is never going to get any intercity service. What would the purpose be?

How about sustainable economic growth? There are brownfield sites aplenty up in those post industrial towns, all supposedly earmarked for high skilled jobs in the new economy. Changing at Newcastle just makes it easier for young people to decide to invest in a car and never look back. The roads up there are probably the best in the country precisely because It is a sparsely populated post-industrial landscape.

On the flip side, it's really not healthy to keep the non-car owning residents of those small towns trapped in the orbit of Newcastle, as if it's the centre of their universe. That's essentially no different than the current express bus network.

Through running was to be abandoned on all routes. Whether this is still happening in December 2025 I don’t know.

Ridiculous if true. Those routes are hardly long distances for a train, so to send the message that people travelling across the north should give way to the far more important north-south travellers, is not remotely where we should be headed as a nation.

 

[30907]

How about sustainable economic growth? There are brownfield sites aplenty up in those post industrial towns, all supposedly earmarked for high skilled jobs in the new economy. Changing at Newcastle just makes it easier for young people to decide to invest in a car and never look back. The roads up there are probably the best in the country precisely because It is a sparsely populated post-industrial landscape.

Really? Not my memory of North Tyneside, admittedly from 35 years ago - I agree it's not (yet) continuous suburbia from Gosforth but....

On the flip side, it's really not healthy to keep the non-car owning residents of those small towns trapped in the orbit of Newcastle, as if it's the centre of their universe. That's essentially no different than the current express bus network.

But where would they commute to? Durham perhaps - but there's no capacity on the ECML.

Ridiculous if true. Those routes are hardly long distances for a train, so to send the message that people travelling across the north should give way to the far more important north-south travellers, is not remotely where we should be headed as a nation.

Again, where are the significant cross-Newcastle local passenger flows? MetroCentre maybe?
And the likes of Whitley Bay don't seem fazed by having to change at Central.

 

[HST43257]

The 2tph Newcastle to Ashington is an excellent starting point, so I’m glad it’s there from the beginning.

I wonder if there’s merit to them extending to Metrocentre, for access to jobs and leisure activities, plus an easier Hexham/Carlisle connection.

I would also like to see the route extend beyond Ashington into Newbiggin. I believe N is served well by buses, so there must be some market there. I’m aware of changes required to Ashington platforms though.

It seems there’s been crew training on the stretch to Morpeth. If there was sufficient peak time demand I wonder if there could be peak time services from Newcastle to Morpeth via Bedlington, then run fast into Newcastle to pick up another service, and vice versa in the other peak time. This is to serve Blyth and Tyne users, not Newcastle to Morpeth.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's just convenient to spin the services there - there isn't really the scope to do that with Ashington.

It adds at least an extra hour to the return working to run it to Saltburn compared to Middlesbrough, with the resultant extra unit requirements. I know there are issues at Middlesbrough where the sidings can't take a 6-car 185, but I'm not sure the current arrangement is just for operational convenience.

The roads up there are probably the best in the country precisely because It is a sparsely populated post-industrial landscape.

The roads to the north and east of Newcastle are a very long way from being "the best in the country". You might look at the Spine Road on a map and think it looks good but, in reality, it turns into a giant car park at peak time. As does the A1 and the A19. Even though the toll booths have now been ripped out and even though the junctions at Silverlink and Testos have been rebuilt, the Tyne Tunnel is still a nightmare.

As for sparsely-populated, it's pretty much one continuous belt of suburbia as far north as Bedlington now and, from there, there's only a small gap in the continuous development before you hit all the new houses springing up around Ashington.

On the flip side, it's really not healthy to keep the non-car owning residents of those small towns trapped in the orbit of Newcastle, as if it's the centre of their universe. That's essentially no different than the current express bus network.

The advantage of the railway is that you don't need to sit in the aforementioned car park.

I lived in Seaton Delaval for a while and, due to traffic congestion, I could ride my bicycle to my job at Newcastle University about as quickly as the peak time bus.

The truth is Newcastle is the major traffic draw for this area. It is the centre of the universe. It's where the shops are and it's where the jobs are. And for those who don't work in Newcastle they work near the new railway too: Cobalt Business Park is within walking distance of Northumberland Park and Quorum Business Park is within walking distance of Four Lane Ends (and rail tickets are interavailable on the Metro).