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New Great Britain Railways. Will this bring massive improvement?

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thaitransit

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I have recently read about the formation of a new single system wide train operator in the UK. Known as Great Britain Railways. I am wondering will this improve the current system?

Will the new operator be 100% government owned and operated?
Will it finally allow a true intergrated regional train and coach operator similar to NSW Trainlink in NSW Australia? So one ticket for entire journey including coach connections?

Will it finally ban the practice of unreserved tickets on regional trains? Finally bringing in fully reserved trains similar to Queensland Rail and NSW Trainlink where it's no reservation no travel as they only sell the trains to the available seats.

Will it allow for far cheaper tickets or even a single fare zone system similar to Vline in Australia where they have a $10.60 flat fare to any destination at any time even if it's a 10 hour long intercity journey?

Most importantly when will the new GBR services begin operating?
 
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JonathanH

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Will it finally allow a true intergrated regional train and coach operator similar to NSW Trainlink in NSW Australia? So one ticket for entire journey including coach connections?
There is no proposal to nationalise long distance coach services.

Most importantly when will the new GBR services begin operating?
At first, they will be the existing services with the ownership changed. Services run by Northern, TransPennine Express, LNER, Southeastern, Transport for Wales and Scotrail are already run by publically owned operations.
 

1D54

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Why all the comparisons with the network in Australia?
 

JonathanH

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Will it finally ban the practice of unreserved tickets on regional trains? Finally bringing in fully reserved trains similar to Queensland Rail and NSW Trainlink where it's no reservation no travel as they only sell the trains to the available seats.
There are other threads bemoaning the loss of a walk on railway at an affordable price. I don't think a proposal to have a reservation only railway in Britain would find a lot of favour on this forum.
 

J-2739

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Will it finally ban the practice of unreserved tickets on regional trains? Finally bringing in fully reserved trains similar to Queensland Rail and NSW Trainlink where it's no reservation no travel as they only sell the trains to the available seats.
I wholeheartedly hope that never happens.
 

Bletchleyite

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Will it finally ban the practice of unreserved tickets on regional trains? Finally bringing in fully reserved trains similar to Queensland Rail and NSW Trainlink where it's no reservation no travel as they only sell the trains to the available seats.

If the LNER proposal is followed, de-facto it will on long distance trains.

Regional trains are unlikely to ever go reservation-only and nor should they. Only very poor quality railways like SNCF and RENFE do that. Countries that understand rail do not - not even Italy, which does operate compulsory reservations on long distance services.
 

thaitransit

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There are other threads bemoaning the loss of a walk on railway at an affordable price. I don't think a proposal to have a reservation only railway in Britain would find a lot of favour on this forum.

I wholeheartedly hope that never happens.
I couldn't think of anything worse than turning up at the station for a long distance train trip only to find my seat is not available and no alternative place to sit! When I travel on regional trains I am almost always on it for more than 4 hours. No way would I stand for that long. I would rather take a road coach or fly at least they allways have a seat for every passenger no matter the delays.
 

jfowkes

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I have recently read about the formation of a new single system wide train operator in the UK. Known as Great Britain Railways. I am wondering will this improve the current system?

Just in case it's not clear, the formation of Great British Railways is not "new" in the sense that it's a proposal by the new Labour government. It was proposed by the Williams–Shapps Rail Review in 2021 and work started on implementation in 2022 and 2023.

The recent inclusion of it in the Kings Speech may make it seem like it's something Labour came up with (they may of course make substantial changes to it), but the basic name and concept is few years old at this point.

Just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page.
 

JonathanH

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When I travel on regional trains I am almost always on it for more than 4 hours. No way would I stand for that long.
Very rare that someone would need to stand for more than 4 hours. There will always be churn of passengers on the way because our major settlements aren't so far apart.
 

The exile

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I couldn't think of anything worse than turning up at the station for a long distance train trip only to find my seat is not available and no alternative place to sit! When I travel on regional trains I am almost always on it for more than 4 hours. No way would I stand for that long. I would rather take a road coach or fly at least they allways have a seat for every passenger no matter the delays.
There is nothing stopping someone reserving a seat on most, if not all, InterCity trains. The problem is that they also form vital parts of local journeys / commutes. As stated elsewhere, not that many Intercity journeys in the uk are 4hours plus, let alone regional journeys.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I have recently read about the formation of a new single system wide train operator in the UK. Known as Great Britain Railways. I am wondering will this improve the current system?
...
Most importantly when will the new GBR services begin operating?
It will be Great British Railways, as read out by the King.
Its scope and structure has yet to be defined, but it will eventually include most operators in the UK (not open access, or freight, which remain private).
So Heathrow Express and Eurostar, among others, remain separate.
Train ownership remains in private hands.
There are no plans to integrate bus and rail, but many bus services, like some rail, will go under local government control.

Timing is uncertain, and may have to wait till new legislation is passed, but a shadow GBR may be set up earlier to run services already in government hands.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The Kings Speech doesn't give any detail just that

With Great British Railways, the fares and ticketing system will see simplified fares, discounts, and ticket types. Once established, the new body will also ensure that ticketing innovations like automatic compensation, digital pay-as-you-go and digital season ticketing are rolled out across the whole network.  

Thats basically an agglomeration of what most operators are already doing but standardising it across the network
 

MarlowDonkey

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When I travel on regional trains I am almost always on it for more than 4 hours. No way would I stand for that long.

The UK concept of a "regional train" is one that travels a decent distance, but stops fairly freqently. So there'a a turnover of passengers and thus seats become available. Parts of "regional train" routes become commuter routes at peak hours so compulsory reservations are out of the question.
 

DanNCL

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Will the new operator be 100% government owned and operated?
Yes

Will it finally allow a true intergrated regional train and coach operator similar to NSW Trainlink in NSW Australia? So one ticket for entire journey including coach connections?
No

Will it finally ban the practice of unreserved tickets on regional trains? Finally bringing in fully reserved trains similar to Queensland Rail and NSW Trainlink where it's no reservation no travel as they only sell the trains to the available seats.
No

Will it allow for far cheaper tickets or even a single fare zone system similar to Vline in Australia where they have a $10.60 flat fare to any destination at any time even if it's a 10 hour long intercity journey?
Unclear at this stage. It’s possible we’ll see something like that, although I somehow doubt we’ll be seeing flat fare £10 singles for Intercity services here!
 

thaitransit

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There is nothing stopping someone reserving a seat on most, if not all, InterCity trains. The problem is that they also form vital parts of local journeys / commutes. As stated elsewhere, not that many Intercity journeys in the uk are 4hours plus, let alone regional journeys.
The local travel role within regional areas in Australia is mostly local buses and occasionally a diesel rail car service eg Newcastle to Maitland But always as separate service from the long distance trains. Having a regional train stopping at so many local stops within a regional centre would just slow the train down making it less useful for those getting to the capital city.
 

The exile

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The UK concept of a "regional train" is one that travels a decent distance, but stops fairly freqently. So there'a a turnover of passengers and thus seats become available. Parts of "regional train" routes become commuter routes at peak hours so compulsory reservations are out of the question.
As do parts of intercity routes.

The local travel role within regional areas in Australia is mostly local buses and occasionally a diesel rail car service eg Newcastle to Maitland But always as separate service from the long distance trains. Having a regional train stopping at so many local stops within a regional centre would just slow the train down making it less useful for those getting to the capital city.
… which just goes to show that there is little point in even starting to make comparisons between the two systems.
 
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HST43257

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There are other threads bemoaning the loss of a walk on railway at an affordable price. I don't think a proposal to have a reservation only railway in Britain would find a lot of favour on this forum.
Is it such a bad thing for the intercity railway? Make more advance tickets available and suddenly more fares are available at cheaper prices (walk-up fares presumed to be more expensive). Suddenly less people are complaining about rail fares being several grand (as per the usual thing of people seeing an effectively sold out train has only walk-up fares available and going straight to twitter).

I guess what we have at the moment in most places is the best of all worlds, with mostly reservations but also a non-res coach, but surely there are ways to fine-tune this
 

Thirteen

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One thing that it won't affect is the operations that are under local control like Elizabeth Line, TFW Rail, Scotrail etc

I would imagine TfL will look to take over Southeastern and GN.
 

JonathanH

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Is it such a bad thing for the intercity railway? Make more advance tickets available and suddenly more fares are available at cheaper prices (walk-up fares presumed to be more expensive). Suddenly less people are complaining about rail fares being several grand (as per the usual thing of people seeing an effectively sold out train has only walk-up fares available and going straight to twitter).
The evidence of the LNER trial, which is exactly what you are suggesting happens, is that higher fares are charged at busy times.

 

AndrewP

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The evidence of the LNER trial, which is exactly what you are suggesting happens, is that higher fares are charged at busy times.

I agree - costs have gone up considerably
 

The exile

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Is it such a bad thing for the intercity railway? Make more advance tickets available and suddenly more fares are available at cheaper prices (walk-up fares presumed to be more expensive). Suddenly less people are complaining about rail fares being several grand (as per the usual thing of people seeing an effectively sold out train has only walk-up fares available and going straight to twitter).

I guess what we have at the moment in most places is the best of all worlds, with mostly reservations but also a non-res coach, but surely there are ways to fine-tune this
In terms of reservations, I would go the other way. Advance tickets come only with counted places, with seat reservations available at (say) £5 per journey (irrespective of number of changes).
 

stj

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I expect a reservation only service would bring in more revenue if ticketless travel were to be stopped.I see many
people travelling between unstaffed stations without tickets.
 

HST43257

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The evidence of the LNER trial, which is exactly what you are suggesting happens, is that higher fares are charged at busy times.

But theoretically what if the only available ticket was an advance single? Prices are completely demand-responsive and there’s no-one to complain about standing because it’s an advance single seated only train. I’m not necessarily saying it’s the best solution but I think it’s worth looking at.
 

snowball

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Just in case it's not clear, the formation of Great British Railways is not "new" in the sense that it's a proposal by the new Labour government. It was proposed by the Williams–Shapps Rail Review in 2021 and work started on implementation in 2022 and 2023.

The recent inclusion of it in the Kings Speech may make it seem like it's something Labour came up with (they may of course make substantial changes to it), but the basic name and concept is few years old at this point.

Just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page.
And indeed the Williams-Shapps review started life as the Williams review, which was commissioned by the Conservative government in 2018. When it was published in 2021, the then Conservative transport secretary, Grant Shapps, added his own name to it.
 

kkong

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The Kings Speech doesn't give any detail...

However, the background briefing notes which accompany it do give some more detail.

Railways Bill

● This Government’s bold vision for the railways will see the delivery of legislation to create a unified and simplified rail system that relentlessly focuses on improving services for passengers, delivering better value for money for taxpayers and, ending years of fragmentation and waste.

● Our railways are essential in ensuring reliable, affordable and accessible transport, which works for passengers and supports our economy. The rail sector and its supply chains support more than 240,000 jobs and generate wide economic benefits by connecting people and places.

● Unlocking the full potential of the railways is essential to growing the economy and lowering emissions from transport. The Government's plan will deliver those benefits, with the railways playing a central role in our growth mission and the country's national renewal.

What does the Bill do?
● The Government will put our rail system back on track to deliver for passengers and support our growth mission, with clear strategic direction and proper integration and coordination. We will ensure our railways deliver against six key objectives: reliable, affordable, efficient, quality, accessible and safe travel. This legislation will deliver the changes we need in the following ways:

o public ownership: The initial Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill will put passengers back at the heart of rail services by enabling us to bring contracts into public ownership as they come to an end or if operators fail to meet their commitments. This Bill will make further legislative changes to comprehensively reform our rail sector – bringing track and train back together and planning services on a whole-system basis, to better deliver for passengers and freight customers, and to unlock growth.

o greater leadership: Bringing together the management of the network and the delivery of passenger services into a single public body, Great British Railways (GBR). This new body will act as a "directing mind", with a relentless focus on delivering for passengers and freight customers.

o delivery for passengers: We will put passengers back at the heart of the railways and introduce new measures to protect their interests. This will include paving the way for a powerful new passenger watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to independently monitor standards and champion improvement in service performance against a range of measures.

o simpler tickets: GBR will reform the ticketing system, to make it simpler for passengers, drive innovation across the network, replace the current ticket types and maximise passenger growth GBR will also ensure that ticketing innovations like automatic compensation, digital pay-as-you-go and digital season ticketing are rolled out across the whole network.

o support for freight operators: There will be a statutory duty on GBR to promote the use of rail freight, alongside an overall growth target set by the Secretary of State. The Government will include safeguards to ensure that freight operators continue to receive fair access to the network.

o role of open access: Open access has a proven track record in driving competition and better passenger outcomes, and wherever there is a case that open access operators can add value and capacity to the network, as assessed by the Office for Road and Rail, they will be able to.

● While primary legislation is required to initiate the change to public ownership and establish GBR, this Government will begin delivering improvements for passengers and freight users straight away. This includes setting up a "shadow
GBR" to unite key industry bodies in collaboration ahead of the formal establishment of GBR and establishing a new approach to industrial relations.

Territorial extent and application
● The Bill will extend and apply GB-wide.
 

skyhigh

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I expect a reservation only service would bring in more revenue if ticketless travel were to be stopped.I see many
people travelling between unstaffed stations without tickets.
You'd just see the same people travelling without tickets or reservations. Unless you're planning to barrier every single station to check reservations...
 

Nicholas Lewis

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However, the background briefing notes which accompany it do give some more detail.
Arghh couldn't track that down so thanks for posting link. Good to see that a shadow GBR will be setup in advance of legislation as thats now key to enable the direction of travel to be managed as well hopefully putting RDG out to grass immediately and getting DfT away from day to day running.
 
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