New ICE Seats and Interior - Putting UK trains to shame

[TRAX]

I wouldn't agree. What you want is a headrest that will support your head in place if you want a kip. If it's too wide you slump sideways.

Of the two types of Grammer IC3000, I actually find the small headrests more comfortable (and less claustrophobic).

Oh so you’re one of those who sleep upright in trains then

 

[Route115?]

Will the seats line up with the windows? I know that the Swiss put that in the train specification but unfortunately many operators do not.

 

[takno]

The seats look rock hard, and have absolutely no contouring, although DB had really perfected the rock-hard intercity seats 20 years before the IETs. They are at least tipped back a bit more than IET seats, but I still wouldn't fancy them.

The wood-effect finish throughout isn't unpleasant, but I wouldn't say it adds any air of quality or expense over any other plastic finish.

 

[andersj]

Will the seats line up with the windows? I know that the Swiss put that in the train specification but unfortunately many operators do not.

Only on the ICE-L (Talgo) all seats will line up with the windows.

 

[Goldfish62]

Will the seats line up with the windows? I know that the Swiss put that in the train specification but unfortunately many operators do not.

The seats do not line up with the windows on any ICEs, not even in 1st Class.

 

[43096]

The seats do not line up with the windows on any ICEs, not even in 1st Class.

They do in the compartments in the ICE1 sets!

 

[Adlington]

Sadly, the links are in German but there are some great photos.

Here is some information in English:

DB unveils new ICE interiors

DB has unveiled the new interior design for its ICE high-speed fleet, which will first be introduced on the ICE 3neo trains from the end of 2023.

www.railjournal.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

Flat cloth? Oh dear...

 

[py_megapixel]

DB's website does say the following though, on this page:https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/suche_Medienpakete/Neues-Design :

Allein für die Sitze wurden rund 200 Stoffmuster von sieben Herstellern gesichtet. In einem elfmonatigen Entwicklungsprozess wurden die Materialien umfassend auf Herz und Nieren getestet. Insbesondere die Sitzbezüge sind vielfältigen Belastungen ausgesetzt und müssen daher hohe Standards erfüllen – ob Abrieb, Lichtbeständigkeit, Reinigungsergebnisse oder Feuerfestigkeit. Dazu wurden mit einem externen Prüfinstitut zahlreiche Tests durchgeführt. So wurden die Stoffe mit Kaffee, Schokolade, Handcreme oder Filzstift verschmutzt, um zu prüfen, ob und wie gut sich die Flecken wieder entfernen lassen. Spezielle Apparaturen malträtierten Probesitze rund um die Uhr, um eine langjährige Nutzung durch zehntausende Fahrgäste zu simulieren.

Which (roughly!) translates to:

"For the seats alone, about 200 material samples from seven manufacturers were tested. In an eleven-month development process, the materials were thoroughly put through their paces. In particular, the seat upholstery is subjected to a variety of trials and must fulfill high standards in abrasion, resistance to light, cleaning results and fire resistance. Additionally, numerous tests were undertaken by an external testing institution. The materials were soiled with coffee, chocolate, hand cream or felt pen, in order to test if, and how well, they allowed the stains to be removed. The seats being trialled were abused around the clock by special apparatus, to simulate many years of use by tens of thousands of passengers".

So it looks like they've put some effort into choosing which flat cloth they use, and hopefully it won't stain as awfully as Northern's...

 

[duesselmartin]

interesting how some people are already negative without seeing the real thing. You cannot tell much from these PR images.

 

[takno]

interesting how some people are already negative without seeing the real thing. You cannot tell much from these PR images.

The thread title is setting a pretty high bar and being pretty negative about other trains. I'm sure these new trains will be fine, but it's fairly clear from the images that they're absolutely nothing special.

 

[Bletchleyite]

DB's website does say the following though, on this page:https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/suche_Medienpakete/Neues-Design :



Which (roughly!) translates to:

"For the seats alone, about 200 material samples from seven manufacturers were tested. In an eleven-month development process, the materials were thoroughly put through their paces. In particular, the seat upholstery is subjected to a variety of trials and must fulfill high standards in abrasion, resistance to light, cleaning results and fire resistance. Additionally, numerous tests were undertaken by an external testing institution. The materials were soiled with coffee, chocolate, hand cream or felt pen, in order to test if, and how well, they allowed the stains to be removed. The seats being trialled were abused around the clock by special apparatus, to simulate many years of use by tens of thousands of passengers".

So it looks like they've put some effort into choosing which flat cloth they use, and hopefully it won't stain as awfully as Northern's...

I think to be fair it will all depend how often they do clean them. If they take the seat covers off and wash them once a week, it'll be fine. UK TOCs don't clean seat fabric very often, which is why moquette is a better choice to hide the stains of coffee etc.

 

[uglymonkey]

But how much per coach does it cost extra? Compared to our "ironing board seats", value added, which the DfT will not pay!!!

 

[neliaquant]

Indeed, you must first feel what it is like in action, and then judge

 

[Stadtbahn]

The thread title is setting a pretty high bar and being pretty negative about other trains. I'm sure these new trains will be fine, but it's fairly clear from the images that they're absolutely nothing special.

Admittedly I was being a little provocative but I stand by it. I simply think that it highlights how much higher the design standards are in places like Germany compared to the plasticky, cheap interior a lot of UK trains, particularly IETs. Whether the new ICE seats/interior is better than the current one is debatable and there are plenty of examples of cost-cutting and a disregard for the passenger experience in Germany, France, and elsewhere. However, when comparing flagship products (i.e. ICEs, TGVs, Ave's) with UK long distance services, the UK delivers an inferior product almost across the board (with some exceptions of course).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Admittedly I was being a little provocative but I stand by it. I simply think that it highlights how much higher the design standards are in places like Germany compared to the plasticky, cheap interior a lot of UK trains, particularly IETs.

I'm sure I read here that Siemens were quite flabbergasted that TPE were ordering a very suburban style interior on the 185. On the other hand a change of seat fabric and some sticky backed fake wood and I think they look somewhere between "posh" and "straight out of the Deutsche Reichsbahn sidings"

Whether the new ICE seats/interior is better than the current one is debatable and there are plenty of examples of cost-cutting and a disregard for the passenger experience in Germany, France, and elsewhere. However, when comparing flagship products (i.e. ICEs, TGVs, Ave's) with UK long distance services, the UK delivers an inferior product almost across the board (with some exceptions of course).

I think TGVs are pretty rubbish, to be honest. At least most UK trains have window alignment in 1st. ICEs don't either.

 

[Stadtbahn]

I think TGVs are pretty rubbish, to be honest. At least most UK trains have window alignment in 1st. ICEs don't either.

I agree that TGVs could be much better overall. But I still think that especially the new TGV Oceane (I believe someone posted a photo earlier in this thread but I've travelled on them previously myself in standard and first class) delivers a much better and more premium looking hard product than all recent UK long distance fleets (despite the restricted space, especially on the upper deck). In the end, its a matter of personal preference I guess, but the hard plastic look of IETs and their sharp lighting makes the travel experience feel cheap and tacky in my opinion. Apologies for straying off-topic

 

[Bletchleyite]

the hard plastic look of IETs and their sharp lighting makes the travel experience feel cheap and tacky in my opinion

I think the GWR ones look rubbish, but if you put some colour in the seat moquette I find it looks decent.

 

[37201xoIM]

I think to be fair it will all depend how often they do clean them. If they take the seat covers off and wash them once a week, it'll be fine. UK TOCs don't clean seat fabric very often, which is why moquette is a better choice to hide the stains of coffee etc.

Yes and no... I suggest PY's point does stand, not least as evidenced by the fact that Northern are already changing the seat covers to moquette and ditching the ghastly flat cloth, including on the 195s! (A side-benefit is that it actually also makes what remains a pretty nasty seat very, very slightly less hard too!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes and no... I suggest PY's point does stand, not least as evidenced by the fact that Northern are already changing the seat covers to moquette and ditching the ghastly flat cloth, including on the 195s! (A side-benefit is that it actually also makes what remains a pretty nasty seat very, very slightly less hard too!)

I've also noticed that moquette-fitted Fainsa Sophias are *not quite as bad* as flat cloth ones - it does make a very slight but noticeable difference.

 

[AlbertBeale]

interesting how some people are already negative without seeing the real thing. You cannot tell much from these PR images.

You don't need to see them to know whether the windows line up with the seats! Some countries manage this routinely - the lack of this is often a disincentive to me. Another reason why I like places where there's still compartment stock!