New Northern map

[A S Leib]

(I'm not sure if this is the best subforum for this)

Northern has a new map (PDF), showing different routes rather than their entire network in one colour. It reminds me of the ScotRail map, which I think has been in a similar style for quite a while. I think it does a good job of showing which routes go where, although I think a way of showing which routes are hourly and which are 2tph would be useful as well.

 

[Kite159]

And why does it show the limited Liverpool - Manchester Victoria stopper as a different colour to the regular Liverpool - Piccadilly stopping service. Surely it should be the same colour with a dashed line into Victoria to identify it's only a couple times a day.

Likewise, shouldn't the link between Newton-Le-Willows & Wigan North Western be shown as the dotted limited service line?

 

[The Planner]

Feels a bit like a Project Mapping one. How does it work with colour blindness?

 

[Llandudno]

Interesting to see ‘Kirkby Headbolt Lane’ rather than just Headbolt Lane which appears on station and on train PIS systems…

 

[dangie]

I think it’s more of a map for the rail enthusiast, rather than a map for the rail user.

 

[hux385]

I don't know about the accuracy of it, but in general, I like it! Northern has such a complex web of services and I always found their map to be not the most illuminating, so this is certainly a step in the right direction

 

[Andyh82]

It’s better than the old one which didn’t give you any idea where the through services went as it was all in one colour

It’s a bit like a Northern version of the old MetroTrain map

 

[styles]

Feels a bit like a Project Mapping one. How does it work with colour blindness?

I suspect you'd need to get in touch with them for that: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/accessibility-hub

Accessible formats​

We are able to provide documents in a range of accessible formats upon request. To find out more or make a request please email [email protected]

It's quite difficult to make such maps friendly for all forms of colour-blindness (including monochromatic vision). TfL have one where each line is a slightly different shape, but in all honesty I find it difficult to read. I expect people with monochromatic vision may be more used to parsing such illustrations, but somebody with say deuteranopia (finding it difficult to perceive greens) I would suspect is more like a non-colourblind person than somebody with monochromatic vision, though that's just a hunch on my part. TfL map: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/bw-large-print-tube-map.pdf

 

[YorksLad12]

I quite like it. I had thought of doing something similar just for West Yorkshire - I won't bother now

It doesn't put red and green next to each other, which is good, but the diagonal station labels always annoy me, as do dotted lines for limited services. The grey lines are too faint for my liking, especially the dotted ones. And I don't think services terminate at Knaresborough now, then run through to York. The yellow dot at Goole should be filled in. But what happens to it when GBR starts - or will they just include the TPE routes properly and call it the Great North Network?

 

[Horizon22]

I suspect you'd need to get in touch with them for that: https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/accessibility-hub



It's quite difficult to make such maps friendly for all forms of colour-blindness (including monochromatic vision). TfL have one where each line is a slightly different shape, but in all honesty I find it difficult to read. I expect people with monochromatic vision may be more used to parsing such illustrations, but somebody with say deuteranopia (finding it difficult to perceive greens) I would suspect is more like a non-colourblind person than somebody with monochromatic vision, though that's just a hunch on my part. TfL map: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/bw-large-print-tube-map.pdf

At the very least you could trace a line, and other lines are all next to each other so you can read across.

I personally quite like it but if you are splitting a complex network into "routes" you're going to run into issues for colour accessibility quite quickly. There's more colours here than on the TfL map, and they are on adjoining lines in many cases (e.g the various shades of blue at Manchester Airport).

 

[YorksLad12]

I personally quite like it but if you are splitting a complex network into "routes" you're going to run into issues for colour accessibility quite quickly. There's more colours here than on the TfL map, and they are on adjoining lines in many cases (e.g the various shades of blue at Manchester Airport).

Good point - that is too many blues. I'd have supported colours being reused with a greater spread; worth noting that the Airedale, Wharfedale and Leeds-Bradford lines are now one colour, so they're willing to colour-share, and some of the colours look practically the same but in different parts (Nottingham, Harrogate).

I do wonder why they've not included connections to South Yorkshire Supertram (and, to a lesser extent, NET); and I'm sure the omission of a grey dot at Low Moor was just an oversight. Having done my own historic Yorkshire Stations map I realise what an undertaking this must be, so much respect to them for even trying.

 

[styles]

At the very least you could trace a line, and other lines are all next to each other so you can read across.

I personally quite like it but if you are splitting a complex network into "routes" you're going to run into issues for colour accessibility quite quickly. There's more colours here than on the TfL map, and they are on adjoining lines in many cases (e.g the various shades of blue at Manchester Airport).

This is a good point about there being more colours than e.g. a TfL map.

I'm not an expert in accessibility but I wonder where the balance is to be struck between avoiding lines being coloured too 'similarly', e.g. different shades of blue; versus avoiding common colour-blind colour combinations of the same level of saturation (e.g. bright red vs bright green). And like you say, if you can see the outline of the shape and in this case 'follow the line', maybe it's less of an issue.

Certainly something I'd like to hear from visually-impaired transport users about.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's a good map, and reflects Northern's services and stopping patterns.
But you'd think that with Northern and TPE both being in the DFTO camp and heading towards GBR, a less parochial approach would have been taken.
A combined "North of England" map, including all TOCs, would be a more useful asset.
How else can you capture the full services around Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds.

Services beyond the limits of Northern operation are indicated (eg WCML/MML/ECML), except at Chester towards Wales.

 

[GordonT]

A good map. Inevitably a few sections and corridors shared with other operators notably TPE seem less well served than is the reality.

 

[A S Leib]

But you'd think that with Northern and TPE both being in the DFTO camp and heading towards GBR, a less parochial approach would have been taken.

Space might be an issue, but including LNER, Merseyrail* and TfW as fellow public-controlled TOCs would make some sense. (Leicester and Derby don't get a mention for connections from Nottingham or Chesterfield, so I wouldn't expect Dumfries to at Carlisle.)

*Merseyrail's own online map – website, no PDF available on their website that I can find – doesn't show any non-Merseyrail stations. Connections to Wigan, Warrington, Manchester, Preston, Wales, Crewe, Ince, Elton [sic.], Stanlow and Helsby are made, but it doesn't really help to plan a journey from Bootle to St. Helens.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

although I think a way of showing which routes are hourly and which are 2tph would be useful as well.

I remember back in - I think it was the early 1980s - BR did a map of services around SE England in which service frequencies were shown with different station symbols: A white circle with a black boundary meant an hourly service, a black circle half hourly, and a slightly larger black square 3 or more tph. There were other symbols to denote lower frequencies, and it seemed easy to understand because there was an obvious pattern of more black = more frequent service. I remember that map quite vividly, but sadly no longer have a copy. I've often felt it it's an idea that could be very useful on today's maps.

 

[aron2smith]

This map would've made it SO MUCH easier for me when I was ticking off all the stations last year. Some of the stations in Northern Land have such weird and awkward stopping patterns.

I think my one critique of the map is that it doesn't indicate the frequency of the lines with limited services. How is someone meant to know Stockport to Stalybridge is Saturday only? or Brigg is 1 return journey Monday to Friday for example? Northern run a fair number of lines with limited services, that if improved would really help with regional connectivity.

I also hope the Rochdale to Ribblehead Saturday service keeps going. Such a lovely route and GM to the Dales is the kind of connections we need to see more of.

Overall, seriously impressive map given the really complicated services Northern has to run, you wouldn't think 500+ stations were on that map!

 

[Djgr]

Interesting to see ‘Kirkby Headbolt Lane’ rather than just Headbolt Lane which appears on station and on train PIS systems…

Well it could be an oversight or a recognition that Headbolt Lane is not a great name for a station, for reasons discussed at length.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I don't think services terminate at Knaresborough now, then run through to York.

Some do - I used a train that started at Knaresborough only last month.

 

[faltskog36abba]

It’s better than the old one which didn’t give you any idea where the through services went as it was all in one colour

It’s a bit like a Northern version of the old MetroTrain map

I Agree -Just like the Metro map, I like it.

 

[omnicity4659]

Feels a bit like a Project Mapping one. How does it work with colour blindness?

Will be a Best Impressions job, more likely given the friendship between him and the current head of commercial at Northern.

Best Impressions has a habit of spewing out some rather inaccessible artwork.

 

[Kite159]

I see it includes the interchange with Merseyrail, Metrolink & the Tyne + Wear Metro, but makes no mention of the Sheffield Supertram connections available in Sheffield or the other light rail networks at Blackpool or Nottingham

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I see it includes the interchange with Merseyrail, Metrolink & the Tyne + Wear Metro, but makes no mention of the Sheffield Supertram connections available in Sheffield or the other light rail networks at Blackpool or Nottingham

The only interchange with Nottingham's trams is at Nottingham; Sheffield's are only connected to at Sheffield, Meadowhall and Rotheram Central; and Blackpool's only proper connection is at Blackpool North.
Not a giant loss, but I do think at least just a generic tram icon would be deserved.

Also notable that it calls them "Bee Network Trams" rather than "Metrolink".

 

[YorksLad12]

Some do - I used a train that started at Knaresborough only last month.

Thanks - I thought they all went through.

I do wonder why they've not included connections to South Yorkshire Supertram (and, to a lesser extent, NET);

I see it includes the interchange with Merseyrail, Metrolink & the Tyne + Wear Metro, but makes no mention of the Sheffield Supertram connections available in Sheffield or the other light rail networks at Blackpool or Nottingham

The only interchange with Nottingham's trams is at Nottingham; Sheffield's are only connected to at Sheffield, Meadowhall and Rotheram Central; and Blackpool's only proper connection is at Blackpool North.
Not a giant loss, but I do think at least just a generic tram icon would be deserved.

Also notable that it calls them "Bee Network Trams" rather than "Metrolink".

There might only be the three touchpoints in South Yorkshire, but they should be included; otherwise it’s just arbitrary, which makes it less useful as it’s not complete.

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks - I thought they all went through.

They basically all do. There's a couple that terminate at Knaresborough in the evening peak and a couple that start there in the morning peak. But that's it, so I can see why someone wouldn't notice unless they look quite closely at the timetable!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There might only be the three touchpoints in South Yorkshire, but they should be included; otherwise it’s just arbitrary, which makes it less useful as it’s not complete.

The whole map feels a bit arbitrary.

Why are Windermere/Barrow trains shown to stop at Salford Crescent?
Why is there no seperation between the Sheffield-manchester (fast) and New Mills - Manchester (stopping)?
Why isn't the service from Chinley via Stockport that runs once or twice a day shown?
Why does Clifton (2tpd) get its dot but there's no dot for Farnworth (3tpd) or Moses Gate (1tpd) on the Rochdale-Blackburn/Clitheroe.
Why isn't the few TPD from Stalybridge or to Leeds from Wigan North Western shown (ok this one really isn't that significant and would be a pain to add)?
Why is Dinting after its triangle, if it was on the triangle, it'd hide that it's not showing as a limited service for direct Hadfield-Manchester?
Why doesn't Shipley have a dot for trains from Bradford?
Why don't Walsden and Moorside show limited peak time service for Headbolt Lane - Blackburn?

Why is the Castleford TPE service shown in full from Stalybridge, but every other TPE merges into Northern at the earliest opportunity?
Why is Grand Central only shown from Bradford to Wakefield?
What is the barrier for "may call additionally at this station at peak times", why doesn't Salwick apply?
Why isn't Ince shown as a stop on the Southport services?
Why isn't Hindley an interchange?

Denton and Brinnington are on the wrong side of each other's lines.

I could go on but the more I continued the less significant the errors got (they're shuffled in with each other).

It's still a great map! And really good for getting a quick idea of service patterns.

 

[Andyh82]

I bet they wish they hadn’t bothered with all these complaints

They should presumably have kept the boring one they’ve used for yonks

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I bet they wish they hadn’t bothered with all these complaints

As I said at the bottom, it's still a great map, I'm just going into wayyy to much detail.

 

[Andyh82]

The new map is optional, for people who can’t get on board with it, the basic map is still available on Northern’s map page

Northern network map

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

So you can use which ever one you prefer

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The whole map feels a bit arbitrary.

Well, any map that only shows one TOC is already - from the point of view of most passengers - arbitrary in which trains it shows.