Newcastle Platforms 11/12

[RollingStock19]

I was under the impression that Platform 12 is now OOU, but I've noticed TPE have a few services booked onto 11 with the timetable change with a 5car 802 which normally wouldn't fit as its about 25m short.

Are they planning on using 11 with 12 being closed off now and just having the back car off the platform?

 

[Darandio]

I believe platform 11 is having the signal re-sited to facilitate longer trains? Someone else should be able to confirm.

 

[RollingStock19]

Makes sense, they do need a bit more platform availability at certain times of the day

 

[zwk500]

Pretty sure it was mentioned in another thread (the Newcaslte-Middlesborough services?) that yes, the P11 signal is being moved to allow longer trains into that platform, but it obstructs the entrance to p12 so that platform is OOU.

Here is the original post: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-newcastle-middlesbrough-express.244402/page-2#post-6196716

 

[Freightmaster]

Pretty sure it was mentioned in another thread (the Newcaslte-Middlesborough services?) that yes, the P11 signal is being moved to allow longer trains into that platform, but it obstructs the entrance to p12 so that platform is OOU.

Sounds a bit similar to what happened with the bays at Wigan North Western a couple of years ago
(i.e. one was sacrificed to make the other longer)?



MARK

 

[DanNCL]

Work has been completed in last few days and P11 can now accommodate a 5 car 80x.

The points have been plain lined making access to P12 impossible, although the track at the now former P12 remains as does the OHLE above it.

Signal T504 has been repositioned whilst T508 has been taken out of use.

 

[swt_passenger]

Work has been completed in last few days and P11 can now accommodate a 5 car 80x.

The points have been plain lined making access to P12 impossible, although the track at the now former P12 remains as does the OHLE above it.

Signal T504 has been repositioned whilst T508 has been taken out of use.

Possibly getting into infrastructure matters, but if this is now complete it’s odd that there’s no corresponding Network Change Notice online yet. Or does that process sometimes lag behind what’s already being done? Usually there’s a consultation long before physical work starts.

 

[RollingStock19]

Its in the WONs for this week

 

[swt_passenger]

Its in the WONs for this week

Thanks.

 

[Anvil1984]

There was also a consultation it’s on Network Rails Network Change sections now under Completed Proposals (it was previously in proposed). The consultation is for Newcastle Platform Extension, not necessarily mentioning P12s closure but it would have been in the appendix which isn’t viewable to the public

 

[swt_passenger]

There was also a consultation it’s on Network Rails Network Change sections now under Completed Proposals (it was previously in proposed). The consultation is for Newcastle Platform Extension, not necessarily mentioning P12s closure but it would have been in the appendix which isn’t viewable to the public

Ah, thanks. I must have blanked the relevant entry out, I was looking down the list for “xxx out of use”, which seems the usual way of naming.

 

[DanNCL]

802206 is currently in P11 for platform-train interface testing. At the time of writing it’s been there for over 9 hours.

I’ve seen a few photos, the unit didn’t get as close to the buffer stops as is normal for P11, and it looks like it may have clipped the platform edge, but that could be the camera angle.

 

[markydh]

I’m guessing the trial run didn’t go well as the booked TPE services into platform 11 have all been going round the ‘back way’ and using platform 1 since the timetable change…

 

[RollingStock19]

There was a TPE set on there this morning... theres another one booked on in about 30 mins.

 

[Chilternblue]

S TV

 

[zwk500]

Tweet from David Horne of LNER confirming platform now in use for the longer sets: https://twitter.com/DavidHorne/status/1661993752976654336?s=20

 

[Flying Scott]

I understand that platform 12 hasn't been in regular use for some time, at least in part due to the platform not being on the paid side of the gateline. However, I am pretty sure I have seen the odd NT or XC train stabled there in recent times, or at least one of the times I passed through the station. I don't know if there are other operational reasons why the platform was taken OOU and it seems a shame to have lost a potentially useful stabling location.

I appreciate the need to accommodate longer trains in platform 11 so, as others have pointed out, T504 signal has been moved to avoid need to start past a signal. With the removal of the points this also prevents them being changed underneath a platformed train. However, would it not have been possible to retain the points and add some kind of interlocking, whereby a longer train occupying a given track circuit would prevent the points being thrown? Whilst the longer train would foul access to platform 12, could the latter not have been retained for stabling trains that have much longer times in the station than a train in the adjacent platform would? Just a thought.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I had picked up on this thread until today but I had half an hour in Newcastle between trains on Wednesday, and having noticed the track change outlined above as my (TPE) train was running into platform 3 I took a walk down P11 and observed the new signal position, also a TPE 5 car stop board just short of the buffers on P11.
Northern had units stabled in platforms 9 & 10 - a recently arrived156 in 10 and 4 car 158 in 9.

In my view the benefits of this change in allowing 5 car TPE - or XC - trains to use P11 far outweigh the loss of P12 as a (mainly) stabling location, I was amazed when the layout was replaced like for like only a few years ago and viewed that as a missed opportunity. In the past it has been not unusual to see all of 9 -12 unoccupied.

.

 

[Watershed]

I understand that platform 12 hasn't been in regular use for some time, at least in part due to the platform not being on the paid side of the gateline. However, I am pretty sure I have seen the odd NT or XC train stabled there in recent times, or at least one of the times I passed through the station. I don't know if there are other operational reasons why the platform was taken OOU and it seems a shame to have lost a potentially useful stabling location.

I appreciate the need to accommodate longer trains in platform 11 so, as others have pointed out, T504 signal has been moved to avoid need to start past a signal. With the removal of the points this also prevents them being changed underneath a platformed train. However, would it not have been possible to retain the points and add some kind of interlocking, whereby a longer train occupying a given track circuit would prevent the points being thrown? Whilst the longer train would foul access to platform 12, could the latter not have been retained for stabling trains that have much longer times in the station than a train in the adjacent platform would? Just a thought.

It would have been possible to have an arrangement like that, i.e. where you'd have two starting signals. There are quite a few stations that have arrangements like that, generally for the same reason.

In this case, I can't say that platform 12 is a major loss to Newcastle. There's still platforms 9 and 10 for short Northern units, and it was very rare for both to be fully occupied.

 

[td97]

However, would it not have been possible to retain the points

S&C is very expensive to maintain. Much simpler to remove and replace with plain line.

 

[geordieblue]

Has the decommissioning of platform 12 been taken forward instead of the proposed Forth Banks severing? IIRC any extension to 12 would have cut off the Forth Banks branch so potentially it was considered more flexible in terms of stabling (or cheaper) to simply plainline 12?