Night arrival into Euston.

[Deafdoggie]

Just to nail my colours to the mast, I'm a country boy at heart.
But for three consecutive Mondays I've had to be in London (having not been in years) each time I've departed on the 22:00 (although the schedule varies by a minute some weeks!) Liverpool train to get home to Stafford. There's a number of questions I have.

The train itself was very quiet although Euston was reasonably busy-the Manchester trains certainly seemed much busier. But what amazed me, was how many people were arriving into Euston at that time! I'd assumed everyone would be heading out of London at that time, but trains were arriving packed-on a Monday night in February! What were all these people doing?
I knew (thanks to RTT) that the train left from platform 14 so loitered around there, instead of partaking in the scrum. Each week it said boarding was expected to start 19 minutes prior to departure, although it never did. They'd put it on the screen and announce it, then promptly start a countdown to closing the platform! I was unsurprised they've had to paint, in large letters, DO NOT RUN all over the floor, what did they think people were going to do? I suspect they are worried on legal action and that'll be their (poor) defense, but as anyone walking would find the barriers closed and their train missed I'm not sure painting all over the floor is the answer.

But my question is, who decides when to open the barrier? Clearly it's supposed to be open 19 minutes early, but someone somewhere is delaying it. Who & Why?

On the plus side-and I know this is controversial-personally, I much prefer the new departure screens. Very clear visual information. And you can see them when loitering at platform ramps just incase it goes green and the platform has changed. Although when a train changes to green they might aswell fire a starting pistol too to get everyone underway. How long before there's a serious injury is anyone's guess, but DO NOT RUN painted all over Euston floor, isn't the answer.

The 22:00 Liverpool train appears to be scheduled to be overtaken by the 22:03 Manchester train, if all goes to plan. Why not swap the departure times? Or the calling patterns? Rather than the Liverpool ambling over to the slows so the Manchester can speed past?

 

[jfollows]

The 22:00 Liverpool train appears to be scheduled to be overtaken by the 22:03 Manchester train, if all goes to plan. Why not swap the departure times? Or the calling patterns? Rather than the Liverpool ambling over to the slows so the Manchester can speed past?

It's not.
1F39 22:00 Euston-Liverpool passes Colwich Junction 23/36
1H01 22:03 Euston-Manchester passes Colwich Junction 23/41
In any case, at that time of evening there is no scope for overtaking anyway, the WCML operates as a "two track railway" from about the 10pm departures anyway to allow for engineering and maintenance work, so the fast and slow trains have to follow each other. These two trains follow each other on whichever lines are available, at least until their first station calls.

 

[stuu]

But what amazed me, was how many people were arriving into Euston at that time! I'd assumed everyone would be heading out of London at that time, but trains were arriving packed-on a Monday night in February! What were all these people doing?

People who live in London going home is the obvious answer

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Just to nail my colours to the mast, I'm a country boy at heart.
But for three consecutive Mondays I've had to be in London (having not been in years) each time I've departed on the 22:00 (although the schedule varies by a minute some weeks!) Liverpool train to get home to Stafford. There's a number of questions I have.
The train itself was very quiet although Euston was reasonably busy-the Manchester trains certainly seemed much busier. But what amazed me, was how many people were arriving into Euston at that time! I'd assumed everyone would be heading out of London at that time, but trains were arriving packed-on a Monday night in February! What were all these people doing?
I knew (thanks to RTT) that the train left from platform 14 so loitered around there, instead of partaking in the scrum. Each week it said boarding was expected to start 19 minutes prior to departure, although it never did. They'd put it on the screen and announce it, then promptly start a countdown to closing the platform! I was unsurprised they've had to paint, in large letters, DO NOT RUN all over the floor, what did they think people were going to do? I suspect they are worried on legal action and that'll be their (poor) defense, but as anyone walking would find the barriers closed and their train missed I'm not sure painting all over the floor is the answer.
But my question is, who decides when to open the barrier? Clearly it's supposed to be open 19 minutes early, but someone somewhere is delaying it. Who & Why?
On the plus side-and I know this is controversial-personally, I much prefer the new departure screens. Very clear visual information. And you can see them when loitering at platform ramps just incase it goes green and the platform has changed. Although when a train changes to green they might aswell fire a starting pistol too to get everyone underway. How long before there's a serious injury is anyone's guess, but DO NOT RUN painted all over Euston floor, isn't the answer.
The 22:00 Liverpool train appears to be scheduled to be overtaken by the 22:03 Manchester train, if all goes to plan. Why not swap the departure times? Or the calling patterns? Rather than the Liverpool ambling over to the slows so the Manchester can speed past?

I’ve done London to Blackpool day trips a couple of times that’s got me home very late. A bizzare day out considering you’ve travelled half the country in one day!

 

[Alfonso]

I'd imagine quite a few work Tuesday Wednesday Thursday in London.

 

[Merseysider]

People who live in London going home is the obvious answer

That was my first thought - maybe people having a long weekend away somewhere and working from “home” during the daytime.

 

[wildcard]

Deafdoggie said:
But what amazed me, was how many people were arriving into Euston at that time! I'd assumed everyone would be heading out of London at that time, but trains were arriving packed-on a Monday night in February! What were all these people doing?

stuu said :People who live in London going home is the obvious answer

Yes - travelling back from Euston after a (relatively ) late night out in town I have noticed LNR trains arriving often full with standing passengers . I guess this shows the size of the night time economy in London . There's plenty to do if you have the cash and the energy . London isn't really a 24hr city unlike Tokyo or NYC but its not far off.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Yes - travelling back from Euston after a (relatively ) late night out in town I have noticed LNR trains arriving often full with standing passengers . I guess this shows the size of the night time economy in London . There's plenty to do if you have the cash and the energy . London isn't really a 24hr city unlike Tokyo or NYC but its not far off.

I look at the departure boards of global railway stations of Apple Maps a lot (I know) and it’s amazing how early intercity departures cease on the Continent

 

[furnessvale]

As a teenager, I would linger on the train until thrown off by the police. I would then walk to one of the London parks where there was an underground vent shaft throwing out warm air. Settled down on one of the many deck chairs until about 6am then off to Charing Cross to continue my journey to Hastings.

Mind you, I wouldn't try it nowadays!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

But what amazed me, was how many people were arriving into Euston at that time! I'd assumed everyone would be heading out of London at that time, but trains were arriving packed-on a Monday night in February!

As regards longer distance trains, anyone travelling late afternoon from Edinburgh Waverley / Glasgow Central would have to leave Central Scotland quite a tad earlier in order to arrive into Euston by 22:00 via the WCML.

 

[sh24]

8.8 million people live in London, and many of them travel for work, business, leisure. Admittedly it's a bit earlier than 22:00 but I'm arriving back from Leeds at 8:30 pm in a couple of days and First had just a handful of vacant seats left to reserve.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It's not.
1F39 22:00 Euston-Liverpool passes Colwich Junction 23/36
1H01 22:03 Euston-Manchester passes Colwich Junction 23/41
In any case, at that time of evening there is no scope for overtaking anyway, the WCML operates as a "two track railway" from about the 10pm departures anyway to allow for engineering and maintenance work, so the fast and slow trains have to follow each other. These two trains follow each other on whichever lines are available, at least until their first station calls.

That's interesting, as both times we were all on time, we left and made the scheduled move to the slows, whilst the Manchester stormed past on the fast, we then went back onto the fasts. We stop at MKC but they don't stop till Rugby. At 3 minutes behind us off Euston they'd be right up us after our stop. I assumed it was the schedule to do that. Why we had to move over and they didn't I don't know then.
In fairness, it might not have been the Manchester, but an Avanti stormed past us on the fasts both times.

 

[jfollows]

That's interesting, as both times we were all on time, we left and made the scheduled move to the slows, whilst the Manchester stormed past on the fast, we then went back onto the fasts. We stop at MKC but they don't stop till Rugby. At 3 minutes behind us off Euston they'd be right up us after our stop. I assumed it was the schedule to do that. Why we had to move over and they didn't I don't know then.
In fairness, it might not have been the Manchester, but an Avanti stormed past us on the fasts both times.

For sure, what actually happens on the day will be driven by what lines remain open,

That's interesting, as both times we were all on time, we left and made the scheduled move to the slows, whilst the Manchester stormed past on the fast, we then went back onto the fasts. We stop at MKC but they don't stop till Rugby. At 3 minutes behind us off Euston they'd be right up us after our stop. I assumed it was the schedule to do that. Why we had to move over and they didn't I don't know then.
In fairness, it might not have been the Manchester, but an Avanti stormed past us on the fasts both times.

The Manchester train calls at Milton Keynes also, it’s a “pick up only” stop, and it followed you as booked on the down slow also this week and remained behind you beyond Rugby. This Monday the Manchester train passed your Liverpool train after you left Lichfield when you remained on the slow line (which is actually faster through Colwich if going to Stafford).
Essentially the timetable is the opposite way round to your original description, the first of the trains to stop somewhere the other doesn't is the Manchester train at Rugby, so the Liverpool is timed to pass there first at 23/01.5 whereas the Manchester arrives there behind it at 23:07. Until then the two trains are "flighted" 3 minutes apart to minimise their impact on the stopping trains which now have to share the same two tracks, although the Manchester train has more pathing/engineering time in its schedule after Watford which may or may not be required to separate the two trains further in the timetable by Milton Keynes (5.5 minutes).

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's interesting, as both times we were all on time, we left and made the scheduled move to the slows, whilst the Manchester stormed past on the fast, we then went back onto the fasts. We stop at MKC but they don't stop till Rugby. At 3 minutes behind us off Euston they'd be right up us after our stop. I assumed it was the schedule to do that. Why we had to move over and they didn't I don't know then.
In fairness, it might not have been the Manchester, but an Avanti stormed past us on the fasts both times.

More usually MKC platform 5 is used for this sort of overtake (indeed that's why it was built). But I guess the evening 2 track timetable sometimes makes things work differently, and when 4 are available they do get used (with some very long waits at MKC as a result).