Night tube reliability

[mrmartin]

Night tube reliability seems to have really went down the pisser recently.

Weekend before last: central line delayed eastbound, causing mass overcrowding (on top of it being a very busy night before xmas), due to staff shortages. Listed as minor delays.

Last weekend: insanely annoying as we went to a friends party in North Acton, which is about as far as I can get from my house on the central line. Go to north acton station and find out the next train is in 1h30+ according to station staff with no departures listed as it has to go all the way from east, go to depot, then turn around again. Again, listed as minor delays. Tweeted TfL who seemed to believe that minor delays was appropriate.

Night bus would have taken 2.5-3hrs so got a taxi at significant expense.

Really poor overall, more annoying as it is driver shortages which is definitely something TfL can sort out - more understandable if it was something unexpected. I find it infuriating it was listed as minor delays.

In hindsight, would it have been 'better' to get a taxi (bus?) to white city then join night tube there? Do they turn trains round there?

 

[Roast Veg]

Massive and systematic driver shortages caused by bad policy quite high up in the LU management (as opposed to a TfL issue). Lots of hiring needed, lots of training also needed.

 

[mrmartin]

What exactly is the bad policy?

 

[bramling]

What exactly is the bad policy?

1) Minimal recruiting from stations. Seems to be because stations are in a mess too following the Fit For The Future reorganisation, so taking staff off stations simply exacerbates and draws attention to problems there.

2) A management reorganisation on the trains side, which was an attempt to correct a previous failed reorganisation carried out in 2010. The latest change seems to have made things even worse. Result is poor availability of the TOps they have, and a shortage of managers meaning TOps having to be put on secondment to cover management roles, so further reducing availability.

3) Terrible morale across the board for various reasons but basically coming down to constant "revolving door" reorganisations and few people having any confidence in or respect for the current senior team.

4) The sticking plaster for all this is to poach from Night Tube, but this has obvious consequences, and has led to further ER issues.

 

[lonogrol]

What exactly is the bad policy?

Basically, because of Night Tube taking up all resources (training, Instructor-operators, recruitment and management time) for the best part of two years, there has been a shortage of full time Train-operators. Rather than recruiting full time operators through the normal channels (I.E. from station staff in L.U.L. and other staff in TFL.) they have just given many of the Night Tube drivers to full time positions, meaning there is now a shortage on Night Tubes. This is why the Pic' line was running with delays after the summer; because they made over a third of the drivers FT.

 

[Busaholic]

Basically, because of Night Tube taking up all resources (training, Instructor-operators, recruitment and management time) for the best part of two years, there has been a shortage of full time Train-operators. Rather than recruiting full time operators through the normal channels (I.E. from station staff in L.U.L. and other staff in TFL.) they have just given many of the Night Tube drivers to full time positions, meaning there is now a shortage on Night Tubes. This is why the Pic' line was running with delays after the summer; because they made over a third of the drivers FT.

If true (and I'm not doubting it) it's a sad way to run a railway, but TfL seems to be failing the travelling public in so many regards at present, not all because of lack of money.

 

[rebmcr]

A proper structured programme to allow Night Tube to be an appropriate 'starting point' for new trainees would seem wise, since it appears that's the de-facto situation anyway.

 

[Roast Veg]

There's a very small amount of internal suggestion that the night tube should be marketed towards university students as a weekend job, though I don't see it myself.

 

[Lrd]

There's a very small amount of internal suggestion that the night tube should be marketed towards university students as a weekend job, though I don't see it myself.

No chance, studying/at uni during the day on Friday then going in for a night shift. Management/unions wouldn't allow it.

 

[bluegoblin7]

No chance, studying/at uni during the day on Friday then going in for a night shift. Management/unions wouldn't allow it.

Except it already happens. And it happens with Night Tube station staff. And it happens with full time drivers and station staff. There are hundreds of Tube staff who are also studying at varying levels. The precedent was set decades ago.

 

[Lrd]

Except it already happens. And it happens with Night Tube station staff. And it happens with full time drivers and station staff. There are hundreds of Tube staff who are also studying at varying levels. The precedent was set decades ago.

Part time study perhaps, I didn't think of that. But not full time study and if they're already students as suggested then they are likely to be full time studying.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I can assure you that full time study happens.

 

[Lrd]

Fair plays. I'm just concerned about rest periods

 

[bluegoblin7]

Fair plays. I'm just concerned about rest periods

Which are entirely valid and reasonable concerns - but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen! Not everyone is as diligent as you or I might be.

 

[Railguy1]

Which are entirely valid and reasonable concerns - but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen! Not everyone is as diligent as you or I might be.

Its a sad sign of the times isn't it. A person having to pay so much for an education at university and therefore has to take a job which has conflicts with that very education! I can't even begin to imagine how difficult that must be not just physically but also mentally.

 

[bramling]

Which are entirely valid and reasonable concerns - but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen! Not everyone is as diligent as you or I might be.

The other issue is of course that such a person is hardly likely to be someone likely to stay in the grade long-term (unless the pay and conditions serve as an unexpected incentive to stay). Not really efficient given the time and cost of providing training, even if it does put a name in a box in the short-term.

 

[RJ]

There's a very small amount of internal suggestion that the night tube should be marketed towards university students as a weekend job, though I don't see it myself.

Me neither. One of the staff at a bus garage I work at told me that some years back they advertised to universities for weekend drivers - which turned out to be a big mistake as this particular group of employees had severe problems with absenteeism. It was never tried again.

That said, if any one individual wants to make it work, they will.

Its a sad sign of the times isn't it. A person having to pay so much for an education at university and therefore has to take a job which has conflicts with that very education! I can't even begin to imagine how difficult that must be not just physically but also mentally.

During my time at Loughborough, I drove night or rail replacement buses down in London on weekends. I'd finish Spanish at 12pm, have the usual drama with EMT down to London, rest during the afternoon then rock up refreshed at the bus depot at 23:00 to drive the N3 or N35. I didn't find it at all draining and 6 years on, still drive for the same bus operators. Weekends at university were fairly quiet anyway as a lot of people were away seeing family or partners.

Having workplace experience stands one in good stead when it comes to the job bunfight in final year, though it's the case that to get into some professions, having a part time job whilst studying just won't work.

As for the cost of university, I view that more as a tax than a debt. The way the system is set up provides no incentive for people to repay any more than the minimum payroll deduction. Of course, many never pay it back.

 

[mrmartin]

Chronic problems on the central line night tube again this weekend and most weekends, despite the some of the line being shut which probably reduces the amount of drives required...

I posted about this nearly 18 months ago and still seems as bad, if not worse...

 

[Dstock7080]

Chronic problems on the central line night tube again this weekend and most weekends, despite the some of the line being shut which probably reduces the amount of drives required...

I posted about this nearly 18 months ago and still seems as bad, if not worse...

Services were suspended White City-West Ruislip/Ealing Broadway, from approximately 0100 on Friday night until close of traffic Sunday. Additionally, White City-Marble Arch 0100-0400 Fri night:

Marble Arch-Loughton, every 20 minutes

Marble Arch-Hainault, every 20 minutes

These services combine to provide a 10 minute service between Marble Arch and Leytonstone.


After 04.00 Saturday morning and overnight on Saturday night/Sunday morning:-

White City-Loughton, every 20 minutes.

White City-Hainault, every 20 minutes.

These services combine to provide a 10 minute service between White City and Leytonstone.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes but there was mass cancellations on the other part of the line due to a lack of drivers

 

[Dstock7080]

Yes but there was mass cancellations on the other part of the line due to a lack of drivers

4 trains cancelled out of 13 required.

 

[mrmartin]

Out of interest, why is it just the central line which seems to be affected by this? Similar issues last night. Seems very rare on other night tube lines, but common on central.