Nightstar timetable

[A60K]

I've just come across the proposed Nightstar timetable for international sleeper services from London, as planned in 1989. There would have been five trains a night from Waterloo International departing as follows:

20.00 to Turin (arr 07.30) and Milan (arr 09.00)
21.00 to Narbonne (arr 08.00)/Marseille (arr 07.00) and Nice (arr 09.30) (train splits at Avignon)
22.00 to Hanover (arr 06.55) and Hamburg (arr 08.05)/Stuttgart (arr 06.25) and Munich (arr 08.15) (train splits at Cologne)
22.45 to Rotterdam (arr 06.55) and Amsterdam (arr 08.30)
23.00 to Cologne (arr 06.35) and Frankfurt (arr 08.55)

Interesting to see that a fair few of these destinations are now being planned as day trains because of the expansion of the high-speed network in Europe.

 

[jopsuk]

There were also supposed to be Nightstars from north of London- the genertaor coaches built were part of the plan; for non-electric lines the trains would have been headed by two(!) 37s sandwiching a generator coach- the 92s should have been able to just about cope with HEP supply

 

[Greenback]

What a civilised way to travel, after a day at work hop on the train, get some dinner, have a sleep and wake up in places like Milan or Amsterdam in time for breakfast! Isn't that far better than a late night flight with a late night arrival, or a very early flight to arrive at the same time?

 

[A60K]

There were also supposed to be Nightstars from north of London- the genertaor coaches built were part of the plan; for non-electric lines the trains would have been headed by two(!) 37s sandwiching a generator coach- the 92s should have been able to just about cope with HEP supply

That's right - one of the services (with the mega 37 combo for haulage) would have been Swansea/Plymouth to Paris, and another I think might have been Manchester/Birmingham - I'm going to see if I can find the proposed timings for these.



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What a civilised way to travel, after a day at work hop on the train, get some dinner, have a sleep and wake up in places like Milan or Amsterdam in time for breakfast! Isn't that far better than a late night flight with a late night arrival, or a very early flight to arrive at the same time?

Absolutely - the Nightstar stock was very high quality, but that's unfortunately also one of the reasons why the plans were abandoned as uneconomic. It's debatable whether we will ever see sleepers through the tunnel, but a limited service London to Munich/Vienna and to Chur/Interlaken in the ski season would possibly pay their way providing that standard(ish) European stock could be used.

 

[blackfive460]

Some years back, the Plymouth - Paris Nightstar appeared on live departure boards as the 18:36 departure from Plymouth!
Post about it appeared on uk.railway.

 

[jopsuk]

Didn't* each cabin have, at the very least, a toilet of its own, with something like 50% having a shower? Crazy level of over-provision of services, frankly. Very heavy coaches, sucking up lots of power.


*or in fact don't- the carriages that were built are after all in not-excactly-loved service in Canada

 

[A60K]

Didn't* each cabin have, at the very least, a toilet of its own, with something like 50% having a shower? Crazy level of over-provision of services, frankly. Very heavy coaches, sucking up lots of power.


*or in fact don't- the carriages that were built are after all in not-excactly-loved service in Canada

That's right - a better mix of cabins would have stood more chance of being economic. I think the Talgo TrenHotel services from Paris to Madrid have everything from a luxury cabin with double bed, shower and toilet to basic two or three bed cabins, and they seem to do pretty well.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Didn't* each cabin have, at the very least, a toilet of its own, with something like 50% having a shower?

You can get a feel for the carriages on the website of VIA Rail Canada. There are sleeper compartments both with and without en-suite showers. I've done a couple of overnight trips in the reclining seats, which have 2+1 seating throughout, almost all in airline configuration. I found them deathly uncomfortable - very very hard seats and lots of sharp bits all around them o jab you in the middle of the night.

They were re-christened the Renaissance fleet (because of their arrival as the first new rolling stock for about twenty or thirty years in Canada).

Click this page for details:

http://www.viarail.ca/en/trains/atlantic-canada/montreal-halifax-ocean/train-cars

 

[jon0844]

What a civilised way to travel, after a day at work hop on the train, get some dinner, have a sleep and wake up in places like Milan or Amsterdam in time for breakfast! Isn't that far better than a late night flight with a late night arrival, or a very early flight to arrive at the same time?

Absolutely yes! A late flight, plus trip to a hotel, or an early flight where it can be a mission to get to the airport (and of course, little to no sleep) - or a train/hotel combined?

Seems a no brainer, yet so few people even know about the sleeper services - and while I am bigging it up, I've never actually been on a sleeper train myself either.

It would be awesome to have had some of those services in operation, and would bring us even closer to mainland Europe.

 

[coupwotcoup]

This is probably a very stupid question and I am prepared for a stint in the stupid arse corner if proved thus, but why are there no Eurostar trains during the night?
Is it just because of London, Paris & Brussels tube/metro systems being closed in the small hours?

 

[MCR247]

Demand? How much demand would there be for a 18 coach eurostar leaving at midnight and 2am?

 

[route:oxford]

Demand? How much demand would there be for a 18 coach eurostar leaving at midnight and 2am?

Depends on where it was going.

Is a midnight departure to a coastal resort in Italy or Spain any worse than getting up at 3am to drive to the airport, queue for 2 hours to get the 6am flight?

 

[jon0844]

Demand? How much demand would there be for a 18 coach eurostar leaving at midnight and 2am?

Is that the main reason? If so, would the loosening of the restrictions in the tunnel allow for Eurostar (or another operator) to use shorter trains during the small hours?

Why wouldn't someone want to come home during the night, perhaps with a service leaving Paris at 1 or 2am. It would allow you whole day/night in Paris and a way home without staying in a hotel. Admittedly, it would serve those who live in London (who could take a taxi/night bus from St Pancras) more than anyone else - but it would really join the two cities together.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

That's right - a better mix of cabins would have stood more chance of being economic. I think the Talgo TrenHotel services from Paris to Madrid have everything from a luxury cabin with double bed, shower and toilet to basic two or three bed cabins, and they seem to do pretty well.

I travelled on that service from Paris (Austerlitz) to Barcelona last year as part of a rail only trip from London to Barcelona. I shall be travelling by air next time. The train is wonderful in theory but in practice it's noisy and uncomfortable (excellent a la carte restaurant car though). I had about five hours sleep. Travelling first class and paying about £385 for a return ticket was not my idea of fun. I'm off to Venice next month for a week. B.A. from Gatwick to Marco Polo, £83 return all found.

.....

 

[jamesontheroad]

This photograph reminded me of this thread. A good close-up view of the most noticeable adaptations made to the Nightstars when they went to Canada:



http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=296196&nseq=95

 

[route101]

Looks like a MK 3!

 

[A60K]

Looks like a MK 3!

They do look similar, partley because of the need to fit the British loading gauge. AIUI they are basically a Mk4 shell (Metro-Cammell/GEC-Alsthom were responsible) without the tilt profile and were strengthened to meet revised requirements.

 

[route101]

Also reminds me of a 180 Carriage too .

 

[anthony263]

I do agree that the body shell looks like a mk3 with the same doors as those on a class 175/180