Northern Advance date changes due to strike

[northwichcat]

Northern have put some vague information on their website relating to the ASLEF strikes that have just been announced.

Industrial action We are aware of the industrial action announced by ASLEF for 30 September and 4th October.​

This page will be updated with information once we have it, however, we do expect there to be significant disruption to services on these days.

We advise checking journey planners if you choose to travel on days affected by industrial action, particularly in the morning and the last service of the day. Please also check journeys the day after strikes as some services may be affected.

Remember to check your entire journey as services across the country may be affected.

This page will be updated with more information as we receive it.

I’ve got a ticket for when strikes are taking place and days in between, can I get a refund?​

Our advice is to only travel if necessary during dates impacted by strike action. Always check before travelling.
If you have a ticket to travel on strike days:

• Ticket holders can get a fee-free refund or change the date of the ticket, for any train that is cancelled, delayed or rescheduled from that in published timetables on the days after you purchased a ticket via our refunds requests page.
• If you have a ticket for the day(s) industrial action is taking place you can use the ticket for travel on specified alternative days (excludes London Underground).
• Season ticket refund, including flexi – You can get a refund on the portion of the season ticket not used, as per the standard refund policy through the season ticket compensation form more information on can be found on the season ticket strike calculator page.

Strikes

Northern | Industrial action information

www.northernrailway.co.uk

I'm presuming I'll be like many people who have purchased Advance Sale tickets for 30th September and those trains are now unlikely to run. The Northern website seems to imply we can request a date change but if you follow the link it mentions that requests normally take 14 days to process and may take longer at busy periods. So I guess trying to get the date changed to the following Saturday is going to be unrealistic?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you follow the link it seems to imply that "refund and rebook" is what is on offer. As Northern Advances don't seem to change in price very much (as they mostly just exist to get one over on TPE), the best plan is probably simply to request a refund and book a new Advance on your chosen day.

I guess it's a bit annoying for sale tickets, but thus is life.

 

[OscarH]

Which day are you wanting to change to? Usually for strikes, tickets dated for a strike day are valid the day before and a few days after. While they unfortunately don't announce the exact protocol until very close, it'd surprise me if it changed for this one

 

[northwichcat]

the best plan is probably simply to request a refund and book a new Advance on your chosen day.

It's an advance to Altrincham I've booked, for the purpose of visiting Dunham Massey. Advance tickets aren't normally available for local journeys to Altrincham e.g. https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=NWI&dest=ALT&period=20230903 4 categories of Sale Advances but the cheapest ticket is normally the £9.70 Off Peak Day Return.

I guess it's a bit annoying for sale tickets, but thus is life.

I think the sale tickets need a special rule to allow an alternative weekend. Northern specifically excluded weekday peak services but due to the Saturday strike there could be some people with 50p advances for an 8am service on Saturday who will be permitted to use them at 8am on a weekday instead!

Which day are you wanting to change to? Usually for strikes, tickets dated for a strike day are valid the day before and a few days after. While they unfortunately don't announce the exact protocol until very close, it'd surprise me if it changed for this one

Looking at the previous announcements it seems the change is under a week both sides of the strike date, so wouldn't allow a Saturday leisure journey to be made the following Saturday instead, without getting the date changed.

 

[Watershed]

Unfortunately, the industry strike policy is unduly inflexible, and completely misleads customers as to their rights.

Whilst you can't rely on the automatic ticket acceptance to use your ticket a week later, you're entitled to have the ticket reissued for free for "a later date of [your] convenience" under Article 16(c) of the Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulation (PRO). This right is - in theory, at least - mirrored under condition 28.3 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) but it's unclear how retailers are expected to implement this in practice.

If you follow the link it seems to imply that "refund and rebook" is what is on offer. As Northern Advances don't seem to change in price very much (as they mostly just exist to get one over on TPE), the best plan is probably simply to request a refund and book a new Advance on your chosen day.

Northern Advances might not, but there is no guarantee that an Advance will be available at the same price or at all. The problem is also much more severe for long distance TOCs, where Advances bought a long time ahead will be considerably cheaper than a new Advance bought at short notice.

Therefore, suggesting that customers' only option is to refund and rebook is absolutely unacceptable - imagine if an airline said "you can rebook and just pay the difference to the current fare" if their flight was cancelled!

I guess it's a bit annoying for sale tickets, but thus is life.

Easily said if you are well off...

 

[northwichcat]

So despite Northern now putting the following on their website "You can request a fee-free change of journey for all ticket types if the train is cancelled or delayed, or rescheduled from that in the published timetable of the day after you have purchased a ticket, via our refunds requests page."

Strikes

Northern | Industrial action information

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Their response to request to change the date of a Saturday ticket to an alternative Saturday is "you will be charged for the new tickets as per the change of journey terms and conditions"

 

[Haywain]

So despite Northern now putting the following on their website "You can request a fee-free change of journey for all ticket types if the train is cancelled or delayed, or rescheduled from that in the published timetable of the day after you have purchased a ticket, via our refunds requests page."

Strikes

Northern | Industrial action information

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Their response to request to change the date of a Saturday ticket to an alternative Saturday is "you will be charged for the new tickets as per the change of journey terms and conditions"

Fee-free means without an administration fee being added, not completely free.

 

[northwichcat]

Fee-free means without an administration fee being added, not completely free.

Still unreasonable to expect a passenger to pay a difference when it's not their fault that services are suspended for the date of the ticket and the ticket easement does not include a Saturday ticket being used on a subsequent Saturday instead. If they don't want to allow a change of date to a subsequent Saturday they should instead pay for alternative transport on the date the ticket was purchased for. As it is Northern are attempting to profit from strike action.

 

[Watershed]

So despite Northern now putting the following on their website "You can request a fee-free change of journey for all ticket types if the train is cancelled or delayed, or rescheduled from that in the published timetable of the day after you have purchased a ticket, via our refunds requests page."

Strikes

Northern | Industrial action information

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Their response to request to change the date of a Saturday ticket to an alternative Saturday is "you will be charged for the new tickets as per the change of journey terms and conditions"

I'd link them to the Gov.uk guidance on Article 16 of the PRO which shows that you're entitled to have your ticket changed to a later date of your convenience free of charge.

The problem is probably that you're dealing with first-line customer service staff who are simply instructed to follow a particular "script" or procedure, and who either don't have the authority to deviate from it to provide you with what you're entitled to, or simply don't understand or care that you are entitled to anything else.