Northern cancellations on the Hull Scarborough route: how could the service be improved?

[mike57]

I am aware that there is a dispute ongoing, but current level of cancellations is rendering the service unusable.

From our local station (Bempton) the service is hourly. so a cancellation really renders the service useless. Over the weekend we needed to make two trips to Scarborough, but with the unreliable service these both became car journeys. On both Saturday and Sunday the last trains in both directions were cancelled.

This problem seems to have spread to weekdays as well, with Thursday being bad, and only last Monday running a full service. Today has started with the first train south cancelled.

Many of the cancellations are down to 'issue with train crew', I assume in normal English it means there are not enough crew to cover all the services, and you then see the balancing service showing 'due to late arrival of incoming service'.

This situation has been worsening during the last couple of months.

What I find frustrating is that it is obvious there are insufficent crew to cover all the services, so why not issue an emergency timetable which is then adhered to and run that until the situation improves. At least it is then possible to plan a journey.

 

[Russel]

I've been trying to plan a day using this route but I've noticed the same as you, via RTT, too unreliable at the moment.

 

[HullRailMan]

Aside from traincrew issues, I don’t think the through running beyond Hull helps with reliability. Much better to have the Yorkshire coast line as a self contained service - it would also allow the return of a properly spaced out 30 minute frequency.

 

[Donny Dave]

It's not far of that now. XX25 to Scarborough (from Sheffield), and xx00 to Bridlington (from York if memory serves me correctly).

 

[sjm77]

I dont have a problem with the Bridlington terminators extending West of Hull to wherever. However having a service from Sheffield which has to interact with XC and the ECML services then run onto the single track sections North of Bridlington seems a bit crazy.

 

[mike57]

Aside from traincrew issues, I don’t think the through running beyond Hull helps with reliability. Much better to have the Yorkshire coast line as a self contained service - it would also allow the return of a properly spaced out 30 minute frequency.

I dont have a problem with the Bridlington terminators extending West of Hull to wherever. However having a service from Sheffield which has to interact with XC and the ECML services then run onto the single track sections North of Bridlington seems a bit crazy.

But for those of us living on the route this through service is very useful, travelling south a change in Doncaster or Sheffield gets you on to long distance services with one change. Every time you introduce another change you create another point of failure, waiting time and general hassle. Maybe running Doncaster to Scarborough would make sense, no need to cross the ECML on the flat at Doncaster if you used platform 0 at Doncaster, and there is a significant interchange at Doncaster with passengers from the Hull - Scarborough section, probably more than carry on to change at Sheffield.

Also the issue hasn't been late running causing problems on the single track sections north of Brid, it has been total cancellation of services due to 'Train crew issues'

 

[JD2168]

Quite a number of passengers use the service from Sheffield through to Hull & beyond towards Scarborough particularly holiday makers during the summer season. There is also a University at Hull which can attract people from all over including Sheffield.

It also enables the second fast Sheffield to Doncaster service which sees a lot of useage.

 

[IanXC]

The current timetable is generally Sheffield to Scarborough and York to Bridlington. I've thought for a while that the previous iteration of the timetable was the optimum, that was Sheffield to Bridlington, York to Hull and separate Hull to Scarborough. Allowed for 30 minute frequency, kept the long distance services off the single line sections and retained most of the long distance connectivity.

 

[HullRailMan]

It's not far of that now. XX25 to Scarborough (from Sheffield), and xx00 to Bridlington (from York if memory serves me correctly).

Give or take - the 1100 hour today, for example, has northbound departures from Hull at XX00 and XX21. Southbound from Bridlington is much worse with departures at XX40 and XX56 and Beverley at XX06 and XX26. A twice an hours service with a 40+ minute gap in service baked in really is poor, and it wasn’t that way for years and years.
Through running to Sheffield may have some merit, but do many people travel beyond Hull of the York service? I’d suggest the loss of a clock face timetable isn’t worth it.

 

[mike57]

Sheffield to Bridlington, York to Hull and separate Hull to Scarborough.

Through running to Sheffield may have some merit, but do many people travel beyond Hull of the York service?

As a regular user of the route I think the Scarborough-Brid-Hull-Doncaster-Sheffield service makes sense. It has been this way for some years and for people living north of Brid in particular the through service to Doncaster and Sheffield to connect with LNER and XC is a benefit, if you have to change again in Hull its another loss of time and potential failure point.

I have noticed the York-Hull-Brid service is not well used north of Beverley outside summer weekends, holiday times and peak hours, and I think this is one route where a 'summer' and 'winter' timetable is needed. During the winter I have seen daytime York-Brid trains with as few as 6 passengers north of Beverley, whilst the Sheffield - Scarborough service will have a reasonable load.

As stated at the start the issue is not with delays caused by the long single track north of Brid, it is caused by a shortage of train crew. If there is insufficent crew to run a full service I would truncate the York - Brid service to Beverley and add the two extra stops into the Scarborough service. This would be better than the current 'random cancellation lottery'

 

[30907]

Let's assume there's the resources to run the present timetable for the sake of argument.
The hourly Scarborough requires the trains to cross between Hunmanby and Filey, which also gives a sensible turnround at SCA, so that's fairly much fixed.
A fairly simple change might be to move the York-Brid 10min earlier, which would also keep it clear of the Halifax-Hull. In the reverse direction it would have to leave Hull behind the TPE (and be closer to ye Halifax - you can't win 'em all I've not checked the York end, but the layover should still be 30min or so, with 35min at Brid.

 

[IanXC]

As a regular user of the route I think the Scarborough-Brid-Hull-Doncaster-Sheffield service makes sense. It has been this way for some years and for people living north of Brid in particular the through service to Doncaster and Sheffield to connect with LNER and XC is a benefit, if you have to change again in Hull its another loss of time and potential failure point.

I have noticed the York-Hull-Brid service is not well used north of Beverley outside summer weekends, holiday times and peak hours, and I think this is one route where a 'summer' and 'winter' timetable is needed. During the winter I have seen daytime York-Brid trains with as few as 6 passengers north of Beverley, whilst the Sheffield - Scarborough service will have a reasonable load.

As stated at the start the issue is not with delays caused by the long single track north of Brid, it is caused by a shortage of train crew. If there is insufficent crew to run a full service I would truncate the York - Brid service to Beverley and add the two extra stops into the Scarborough service. This would be better than the current 'random cancellation lottery'

I agree that SCA-BDT-HUL-DON-SHF makes sense from a connectivity perspective, but throw in the single line sections and its not a recipe for a reliable service. When the separate SCA-HUL service ran it was incredibly rare for a late running service to cause its next working to be late. If there was (or could be funded) full double track SCA-BDT then absolutely, no issue.

Hull to Bridlington has had 2tph I believe since pre privatisation days, it would be a courageous proposal to reduce this (or one proposed by EYMS!)

Even with sufficient traincrew the single line sections combined with the long distance (Sheffield/Doncaster) runs inevitably result in significant delays and disruption. Only today issues with level crossing phones between Brough and Gilberdyke resulted in a service being terminated at Filey for instance.

Let's assume there's the resources to run the present timetable for the sake of argument.
The hourly Scarborough requires the trains to cross between Hunmanby and Filey, which also gives a sensible turnround at SCA, so that's fairly much fixed.
A fairly simple change might be to move the York-Brid 10min earlier, which would also keep it clear of the Halifax-Hull. In the reverse direction it would have to leave Hull behind the TPE (and be closer to ye Halifax - you can't win 'em all I've not checked the York end, but the layover should still be 30min or so, with 35min at Brid.

The turnaround at Scarborough wasn't materially different under the SCA-HUL and BDT-SHF timetable, generally they crossed at Bridlington but the effect on service was significantly lower due to their inability to impact services further afield. Hull - Selby frequency probably isn't really a factor given that whatever point in the hour each train runs there are 3 or 4 trains per hour.