Northern - son forgot travel pass

[kirkstaller]

Hi folks,

My son has received a letter from Northern's Debt Recovery and Prosecutions Unit in relation to an 'alleged contravention of Railway Regulations'.

Here are the facts:

1) My son was travelling from Barnsley to Meadowhall.
2) He bought a open return ticket online through Trainline.
3) His ticket price was reduced by 50% because he has a valid South Yorkshire 16-17 Zoom Pass.
4) On the day he travelled, he forgot this railcard. He only realised this when the Northern inspector was inspecting his ticket on the train.
5) The inspector told my son that he would take his name, address and email address, and that he should expect to receive an email the following day requesting photographic evidence of his railcard. He told my son that if he replied with a photo of a valid pass then "it would all be sorted".
6) My son has not received any email from Northern, only the letter requesting an explanation from him.

I am experienced in challenging unfair parking charges and other types of small claims, but this is my first time dealing with this type of matter and so I am seeking your advice on how best to proceed.

Thank you

 

[skyhigh]

6) My son has not received any email from Northern, only the letter requesting an explanation from him.

The letter will have an email address on. Either reply via post or email attaching proof that he held a valid Railcard and they'll likely close the matter with nothing further needed.

 

[Gloster]

Others are more expert than me, but if it has reached the stage of them sending a letter, then I believe it would be better to reply by letter. However, it is normal practice that once a year the railway will drop a case involving being unable to show a railcard when checked once proof is provided that a valid railcard was held at the time (but just left at home).

Wiser and more knowledgeable heads should be along soon to confirm this and allow you to get your reply in before the deadline.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

I’m sure others will be long soon but it sounds like you’ve received the standard ‘please explain’ letter regarding the incident.

You either write back or email back, including the reference number explaining the situation above and include a picture of the railcard.

It’s the likely the case will go to no further action and the only negative impact will be your son is logged in the system but, if it’s a one off and there’s no other issues it should be all over and done with. As @Gloster has said above, it’s common practice and accepted that people are human and can forget things.

Feel free to post up and correspondence on here with personal details obscured and this may help the more experienced people with a draft reply for you

 

[WesternLancer]

EDIT - post amended as OP is not referring to the 16-17 Railcard


If this is the only time this has happened in the last year - this is the clause your son would be making use of:

What happens if I don't have my 16-17 Saver with me and I have to buy a new ticket or pay a Penalty Fare?
A:
If you are travelling by train on a ticket with 16-17 Saver discount, you must travel with your valid 16-17 Saver. If you forget your 16-17 Saver you will either be required to buy a new ticket or you may on certain services be liable for a Penalty Fare. However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens.
Each train company will have their own process for doing this. You will need to provide proof of your 16-17 Saver and either the original and additional tickets that you have purchased, or if you have not yet paid, details of the notice to pay or notice of Penalty Fare. Where you have already paid for additional tickets you should contact the relevant train company’s customer services department; in the case of a notice to pay of notice of Penalty Fare, you should follow the instructions included on how to challenge or appeal the charge.

From the FAQ's on the 16-17 Railcard web site

FAQs - 16-17 Saver

www.16-17saver.co.uk

I note your son was not asked to buy a new ticket or issued with a Penalty Fare, but I assume the process outlined is the same and as others have said above in terms of how to reply.

 

[185]

fyi... reading the original post, assume this is NOT the 16-17 Saver discount applied, this is SYPTE Zoom pass, a "16-18" product. (Code SSP - "SY ZOOM 16-18 PASS"), also a 50% discount. Conditions may be different, thus age may be too.

 

[stuartl]

I don't think this a 16-17 railcard. It's a South Yorkshire 16-18 zoom pass which gives 50% discount on train fares in South Yorkshire. Do the same once yearly forgetting rules apply to this ?

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't think this a 16-17 railcard. It's a South Yorkshire 16-18 zoom pass which gives 50% discount on train fares in South Yorkshire. Do the same once yearly forgetting rules apply to this ?

My apols - assume this has T&Cs that would cover the scenario - would like to hope that Northern will apply the same logic as is used with the 16-17 Railcard

Presumably one of these:

Zoom 16-18 Travel Pass - Travel South Yorkshire

Apply for a Zoom 16-18 Travel Pass to save you money on your bus, tram or train journey.

www.travelsouthyorkshire.com

from which the Conditions of Use pdf page link does not work (or not when I just tried it!)

The requested URL could not be retrieved​

 

[jamiearmley]

The south Yorkshire Zoom 16-18 card is treated the same as any other Railcard with regard to the forgotten Railcard policy.

I'm confused as to why an email address was taken, this is not usual procedure at Northern. It's also not one of the three pieces of information one is legally obligated to provide.

First contact is ALWAYS by letter, and never by email, with respect to communication from Northern. Any Northern officer taking details knows this.

Reply to the letter with details of your son's travel pass. As long as there is no other issue here apart from the forgotten pass, that will be the end of the matter.

Note also that :

There is a 'Zoom Beyond' pass for 18+. This is not valid on trains, only on bus and tram. It's common for those moving on to this pass to get caught out by not realising the difference as they graduate from the 16-18 'Zoom' version.

'Open Return' is a mislabeling by Trainline. There is no such ticket. There only exists Advance and Anytime singles, Off peak day returns and Anytime day returns with respect to this journey. (Excluding rovers, rangers and weeklies).

 

[kirkstaller]

Thanks everyone. Will reply by letter and email with evidence of a valid Zoom pass. Hopefully that will be the end of the matter.

 

[kirkstaller]

Update: Two days after submitting our reply with evidence of a valid railcard, my son has been issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice of £100.

Any advice on what to do next? Does he just take this one on the chin rather than run the risk of losing at court and ending up with a criminal record?

 

[Titfield]

I would request from Travel South Yorkshire for a copy of the Conditions of Use of the pass and go from there.

It seems to me it would be most unusual if there was not some condition that covered this eventuality.

 

[spag23]

Update: Two days after submitting our reply with evidence of a valid railcard, my son has been issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice of £100.

Did the PFN take account of your reply? Or did they cross in the post? If you are uncertain, ask them to clarify.

 

[jamiearmley]

Update: Two days after submitting our reply with evidence of a valid railcard, my son has been issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice of £100.

Any advice on what to do next? Does he just take this one on the chin rather than run the risk of losing at court and ending up with a criminal record?

They will likely have crossed in the post, so to speak. It's always best with these things to reply quickly, and not use the full 14 day window unless essential to do so.

Contact them, as ask for clarity, as suggested above.

If they have received your correspondence, this should be referenced in the penalty notice letter. If it is not referenced, they likely haven't.

 

[kirkstaller]

He's just received an email to say it won't be taken any further. Sounds like it was a case of crossing in the post.

Thanks

 

[spag23]

Good result. But get your son to make sure it doesn't happen again in the next 12 months. It's a once-per-year concession.
Also make sure he's noted the expiry date somewhere where it will reliably alert him before the renewal date. Issues with expired Railcards make up a large chunk of the submissions to this forum.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for updating us - good result.

 

[MotCO]

Can I suggest you keep a copy of the latest email and don't delete it in case anything else develops.