Off peak return attained by split fare

[HowardGWR]

This is a general query. I am planning to travel buying an off peak return but the TOC has recently permanently altered the departure time from Dorchester South 0933 to 0926 (- actually to solve a specific timetable problem I suspect, as all the other departures remain at xx33).

I want to buy an anytime return (actually has to be two singles out and back) to Moreton on the 0926 and then my off peak return from Moreton (dep 0932).

Do members see any snags? Do I have to get off at Moreton and immediately get on again?

 

[ainsworth74]

Do I have to get off at Moreton and immediately get on again?

I mean if you want to stretch your legs sure but there's no need to otherwise

Being more serious there's no need to do anything when splitting other than be on a train that calls at the split point (some situations exist where even that isn't necessary but those don't appear to apply here).

There were some reports many years ago (15+ I'd think) of some XC guards demanding passengers change trains on splits but they were wrong then and would be wrong now and I cannot recall hearing such a story in over a decade!

It might be worth contacting SWR and suggesting they change the restriction code of the ticket though to allow the 0926 to be valid with off-peak tickets? I mean I'm not hopeful it will get to someone who understands what you're asking but there's no harm in doing so!

 

[alistairlees]

I mean if you want to stretch your legs sure but there's no need to otherwise

Being more serious there's no need to do anything when splitting other than be on a train that calls at the split point (some situations exist where even that isn't necessary but those don't appear to apply here).

There were some reports many years ago (15+ I'd think) of some XC guards demanding passengers change trains on splits but they were wrong then and would be wrong now and I cannot recall hearing such a story in over a decade!

It might be worth contacting SWR and suggesting they change the restriction code of the ticket though to allow the 0926 to be valid with off-peak tickets? I mean I'm not hopeful it will get to someone who understands what you're asking but there's no harm in doing so!

Specifically you should ask them to add an easement. There are already easements on the Weymouth line for just this purpose.

 

[yorkie]

This is a general query. I am planning to travel buying an off peak return but the TOC has recently permanently altered the departure time from Dorchester South 0933 to 0926 (- actually to solve a specific timetable problem I suspect, as all the other departures remain at xx33).

I want to buy an anytime return (actually has to be two singles out and back) to Moreton on the 0926 and then my off peak return from Moreton (dep 0932).

Do members see any snags? Do I have to get off at Moreton and immediately get on again?

Where is your journey to?

It is entirely legitimate to use two or more tickets for one journey, and indeed some websites will check if this is cheaper and automatically do this for you; the cheapest split point may not always be obvious.

Furthermore, where available, these sites can offer e-tickets covering the whole journey on one handy PDF, so it's arguably no less convenient than buying a through ticket.

 

[30907]

Which date is this for? RTT shows 0933 from Monday onward.

 

[HowardGWR]

Which date is this for? RTT shows 0933 from Monday onward.

RTT is wrong or GWR Mixing Deck is wrong.

Journey is on the 23rd Nov to Gatwick. The tickets ("two together") via Barnham are £45.50 in total off peak return which is ridiculously cheaper than via Clapham Junction (over £109) and not much slower. Both ways involve but one change.

Thanks for replies on split ticketing. I assumed that it must be so, as I can't see how the split ticket sites survive otherwise.

Edit I looked on RTT and it states 0926

 

[swt_passenger]

RTT is wrong or GWR Mixing Deck is wrong.

Journey is on the 23rd Nov to Gatwick. The tickets ("two together") via Barnham are £45.50 in total off peak return which is ridiculously cheaper than via Clapham Junction (over £109) and not much slower. Both ways involve but one change.

Thanks for replies on split ticketing. I assumed that it must be so, as I can't see how the split ticket sites survive otherwise.

Edit I looked on RTT and it states 0926

There’s engineering works Weymouth to Dorchester South that week, so an altered timetable is in force. I think personally the normal Offpeak fares should still be available on slightly retimed trains such as 1W54.

 

[HowardGWR]

There’s engineering works Weymouth to Dorchester South that week, so an altered timetable is in force. I think personally the normal Offpeak fares should still be available on slightly retimed trains such as 1W54.

Thanks. Yes you would hope so but dare I assume such? It says (somewhere) on advance tickets, that if the TOC changes the timetable at the last minute or cancels, then one can get another train without penalty, but this is a bit different isn't it? It's typical of my bad luck.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks. Yes you would hope so but Dare I assume such? It says (somewhere) on advance tickets, that if the TOC changes the timetable at the last minute or cancels, then one can get another train without penalty, but this is a bit different isn't it? It's typical of my bad luck.

I doubt you can assume as much. What I think is just an opinion. It might be an idea to ask SWR, but usually their customer service staff aren’t much good on detailed fares queries…

 

[HowardGWR]

I shall book the extra tickets (£14.50) and bemoan my fate when the guard doesn't appear until past Moreton!!
(joke, I'm not a fare evader).

 

[Watershed]

I shall book the extra tickets (£14.50) and bemoan my fate when the guard doesn't appear until past Moreton!!
(joke, I'm not a fare evader).

You could just buy the period return from Dorchester and buy an Anytime single to Moreton?

 

[30907]

RTT is wrong

Not for Nov 8 onwards, hence my query - anyway it's resolved.

 

[HowardGWR]

You could just buy the period return from Dorchester and buy an Anytime single to Moreton?

Surely that won't wash with the guard? If you present a ticket that was not valid from Dorchester, assuming he/she is on the ball, they would excess you to Gatwick?

Indeed, m

Not for Nov 8 onwards, hence my query - anyway it's resolved.

My apology. I should have mentioned the date of travel from the beginning, as it says in the instruction email above. I could not have dreampt that the time would change just for one week. I'll remember in future.

 

[Watershed]

Surely that won't wash with the guard? If you present a ticket that was not valid from Dorchester, assuming he/she is on the ball, they would excess you to Gatwick?

Yes, but if you show them your ticket from Dorchester to Moreton you can demonstrate you only started using the Off-Peak ticket once it became valid.

In such circumstances you are not liable to pay any excess fare.

 

[transportphoto]

Yes, but if you show them your ticket from Dorchester to Moreton you can demonstrate you only started using the Off-Peak ticket once it became valid.

In such circumstances you are not liable to pay any excess fare.

Something about this doesn’t sit right with me, I’m not an expert, but I’d be reluctant to agree this is wholly valid.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see why it wouldn't be valid to do that.

For most people, the easiest thing to do is book on Trainsplit and accept the splits it comes out with and not worry about anything.

 

[Starmill]

Something about this doesn’t sit right with me, I’m not an expert, but I’d be reluctant to agree this is wholly valid.

What is the source of your concern? Having overlapping tickets? Or starting 'short' on the Off Peak ticket? Or something else?

 

[Watershed]

Something about this doesn’t sit right with me, I’m not an expert, but I’d be reluctant to agree this is wholly valid.

Restriction 4B states:

Morning Travel

Not valid on any train timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30, except as follows:

(none of the exceptions or evening restrictions apply to this journey)

Therefore the restriction is not on using trains which depart the origin station printed on ticket before 09:30, but on using trains which depart before 09:30.

As OP would only be using the ticket on trains which depart after 09:30 - namely the 09:32 from Moreton - they would be travelling in line with the restrictions.

There are restrictions which have the former effect, for example G7, which is used by LNER on some of their CDRs:

Not valid on trains timed to depart the origin station shown on the ticket after 02:59 until 09:30.

I think it is noteworthy that 4B is not worded in this way.

 

[transportphoto]

What is the source of your concern? Having overlapping tickets? Or starting 'short' on the Off Peak ticket? Or something else?

My concern was the not valid on trains timed to depart (which could be taken as the origin station), but we’ve now compared with other wording. I’ll leave to the group consensus.

 

[HowardGWR]

Just imagine the embarrassment trying to argue with a guard in front of everyone though. I think I'll pay the extra £14.30 for the two singles to Moreton and back from Moreton* (the off peak return to Gatwick costs ironically the same fare as from Dorchester South,by the way).

*outrageous prices by the way for such a short hop and those prices with a railcard to boot.

 

[Starmill]

It's your perogative to pay that if you wish to. You can always ask the ticket office if the cheaper option is permitted. They may get it right and tell you it is, which will give you very clear evidence of the contractual right to travel.

 

[ajs]

Isn’t the situation caused by the OP using a Two Together railcard, which on a weekday is not valid on trains departing until after 9.30am? No leeway?

 

[HowardGWR]

If one could ring someone who had authority I would, but that is the problem all round today, that you can;t contact a proper manager but someone situated in a call centre. I've just had that experience with Easyjet so it's a general issue. A telephone call to the local booking office would have been great and could have been available years ago.

Isn’t the situation caused by the OP using a Two Together railcard, which on a weekday is not valid on trains departing until after 9.30am? No leeway?

No, it's because the 0933 (valid for two together) has been temporarily re-timed for a few days to 0926 due to engineering work.

 

[alistairlees]

If one could ring someone who had authority I would, but that is the problem all round today, that you can;t contact a proper manager but someone situated in a call centre. I've just had that experience with Easyjet so it's a general issue. A telephone call to the local booking office would have been great and could have been available years ago.



No, it's because the 0933 (valid for two together) has been temporarily re-timed for a few days to 0926 due to engineering work.

I do think you should get in touch with SWR and explain the situation and ask if you can use an Off-Peak ticket on the 09.26, given that it normally goes ay 09.33 when this ticket is valid. They should just say "yes".

 

[HowardGWR]

Thanks all, I'll give it a try. I'm a glutton for punishment and I can report back later on how it went.

Thanks all, I'll give it a try. I'm a glutton for punishment and I can report back later on how it went.

I rang the number and got a very helpful lady who said that it didn't matter that the 0933 was changed to 0926 on the 23rd Nov, as it was an off peak train due to the fact of when it arrived in London (after 1000 I think she said). Indeed earlier trains, e.g. 0833 also qualified!

I explained to her that the SWR online booking only gave the 1033 from Dorchester South as earliest off peak train and she was surprised and promised me that she would pass on my complaint and get it sorted. She said to just book the ticket as though I was gettig the 1033 as it didn't matter because the time is only printed on advance tickets, not off peak.

Isn't that fantastic service and it removes all my prejudices about being diverted to foreign based call centres on these contact numbers. I should hasten to add that i find those foreign operators always very helpful and they do their very best but it's not the same as having someone intimately in contact with the local circumstances, as this young lady clearly is.

Just to add thanks to all, but to express surprise that the booking systems can be so misleading.

 

[alistairlees]

Thanks all, I'll give it a try. I'm a glutton for punishment and I can report back later on how it went.


I rang the number and got a very helpful lady who said that it didn't matter that the 0933 was changed to 0926 on the 23rd Nov, as it was an off peak train due to the fact of when it arrived in London (after 1000 I think she said). Indeed earlier trains, e.g. 0833 also qualified!

I explained to her that the SWR online booking only gave the 1033 from Dorchester South as earliest off peak train and she was surprised and promised me that she would pass on my complaint and get it sorted. She said to just book the ticket as though I was gettig the 1033 as it didn't matter because the time is only printed on advance tickets, not off peak.

Isn't that fantastic service and it removes all my prejudices about being diverted to foreign based call centres on these contact numbers. I should hasten to add that i find those foreign operators always very helpful and they do their very best but it's not the same as having someone intimately in contact with the local circumstances, as this young lady clearly is.

Indeed it is great service, but it is a pity that she is completely wrong.

Assuming that you told her that you intended to buy an Off-Peak Return from Dorchester South to Gatwick Airport, route Barnham, then she should have looked up the restriction code on this (4B) to see that it is barred to travel up to and including 09.29 on weekdays.

Almost certainly she made the assmuption that you will buy a Dorchester South to Gatwick Airport Off-Peak Return, route Any Permitted. As she said this does indeed have a restriction (UW) preventing arrival in London before 10.00.

The fare for the first ticket is set by Southern; the fare for the second is set by SWR.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much given that this is a temporary and not permanent change to the Dorchester South departure time.

Just to add thanks to all, but to express surprise that the booking systems can be so misleading.

As your edit crossed with my post, it is the customer service person that is misleading; the booking systems are correct. But I would expect no-one to notoce / care, or discretion to be shown.

 

[HowardGWR]

Indeed it is great service, but it is a pity that she is completely wrong.

Assuming that you told her that you intended to buy an Off-Peak Return from Dorchester South to Gatwick Airport, route Barnham, then she should have looked up the restriction code on this (4B) to see that it is barred to travel up to and including 09.29 on weekdays.

Almost certainly she made the assmuption that you will buy a Dorchester South to Gatwick Airport Off-Peak Return, route Any Permitted. As she said this does indeed have a restriction (UW) preventing arrival in London before 10.00.

The fare for the first ticket is set by Southern; the fare for the second is set by SWR.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much given that this is a temporary and not permanent change to the Dorchester South departure time.


As your edit crossed with my post, it is the customer service person that is misleading; the booking systems are correct. But I would expect no-one to notoce / care, or discretion to be shown.

Thanks. I did actually tell her I was going via Barnham changing at Southampton. So she either didn't take that in or indeed gave duff info. I think (recalling her words) that she siad that it didn't matter that I was changing, the train I was catching was "an off peak train" and that was all there was to it.

I have already sent off for the ticket now online and have paid for it, so indeed I am just going to brazen it out, because it's so annoying that one gets told nonsense by those who are supposed to know. It is true of course that the train would normally be in the correct off peak time of departure anyway.

 

[robbeech]

Thanks. I did actually tell her I was going via Barnham changing at Southampton. So she either didn't take that in or indeed gave duff info. I think (recalling her words) that she siad that it didn't matter that I was changing, the train I was catching was "an off peak train" and that was all there was to it.

I have already sent off for the ticket now online and have paid for it, so indeed I am just going to brazen it out, because it's so annoying that one gets told nonsense by those who are supposed to know. It is true of course that the train would normally be in the correct off peak time of departure anyway.

It’s probably about time that the people who are paid to have some knowledge about ticketing had some knowledge about ticketing. But as we see here, that isn’t common.
What IS common nowadays is being told one thing by a ‘helpful’ member of staff to then be told something different, possibly costing the passenger more money or worse a short time later. There’s no incentive for the railway to fix this as the revenue from passengers having to pay twice is quite pleasant.