Off-Peak return before 4:30?

[dasfvzcx]

I was up very early today and decided to go in early on the 3:54 from Reading to Paddington.

When looking at train apps, for Reading <-> Paddington (with Network Railcard), I couldn't get it to offer me a off-peak return.

Is that because:
- the ticket itself is not valid on the 3:54 (because not after 9:30?)
- the Network Railcard not being valid
Or some other reason?

 

[zero]

Well even without a railcard, if you were looking at the Off-Peak Return £35.40 (£23.55 with railcard), this has restriction code FP:

Not valid to depart until 09:30 from:

• Reading

Not valid to arrive at the following stations before the times shown below:

• 09:57 at London Paddington

 

[sonic2009]

The 3:54 Reading to London Paddington would cost £13 Single Reading to London if using contactless.

 

[TUC]

Well even without a railcard, if you were looking at the Off-Peak Return £35.40 (£23.55 with railcard), this has restriction code FP:

Not valid to depart until 09:30 from:

• Reading

Not valid to arrive at the following stations before the times shown below:

• 09:57 at London Paddington

,
But the question relates to the fact that, for ticketing purposes, flexible tickets for the previous day are generally valid (unless specified otherwise) until 0429 the next day. Therefore, the question is whether 'not valid to arrive at London Paddington before 0957' condition should be interpreted as being for journeys which commence after 0429?

Interestingly, the conditions for Off-Peak Day Returns state 'Off-Peak Day Return tickets are valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning. All travel must be completed by this time', but for Off-Peak Returns it simply states 'Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for outward travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning'. https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/tickets/g2r/

 

[JonathanH]

But the question relates to the fact that, for ticketing purposes, flexible tickets for the previous day are generally valid (unless specified otherwise) until 0429 the next day.

Doesn't such a ticket need to be bought before midnight though?

GWR's ticket booking site will sell a Network Railcard discounted off peak day return for the 0335 London Paddington to Reading (arrive 0423) and the 0224 from Reading to Paddington.

 

[yorkie]

Doesn't such a ticket need to be bought before midnight though?

It needs to be dated for the previous day, yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2025 ==

I was up very early today and decided to go in early on the 3:54 from Reading to Paddington.

When looking at train apps, for Reading <-> Paddington (with Network Railcard), I couldn't get it to offer me a off-peak return....

Hopefully you booked with us, as we save around £10 due to the way the restrictions are set differently from Slough

 

[Watershed]

There are differences between the restriction codes applicable to the Off-Peak Return (SVR) and Off-Peak Day Return (CDR).

The SVR's restriction code, FP, says "not valid until 09:30" with no exception for travel starting pre-04:30, so it's not valid on the 03:54. The CDR's restriction code, O9, says "not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:30 and before 09:30", so it is valid on the 03:54.

Based on the wording of the Network Railcard conditions, the time restrictions technically apply for any travel before 10:00 Monday-Friday, thus meaning it wouldn't be valid on pre-04:30 trains. However, the way this is defined in the industry restriction data feed (as only applying to 04:30-09:59 departures) means that you will still be offered the discount by journey planners, for trains departing before 04:30.

Therefore retailers are correct to offer the CDR, but not the SVR, on the 03:54. And although based on the wording of its conditions the Network Railcard wouldn't be valid on the 03:54, you are entitled to rely the 03:54 itinerary you are offered when buying a Network Railcard-discounted CDR.

The differences between SVR and CDR validity continue in the evening peak, where the latter has restrictions on fast GWR services between 19:00 and 19:18, whereas the SVR cannot have these restrictions as it is a regulated fare (that hasn't stopped GWR from "accidentally" adding such restrictions on several occasions, before being caught!).

 

[dasfvzcx]

The engines I've looked at (Trainline, GWR, Uber) seem to offer 17.30 for earlier trains but higher for 03:54 train, which surprises me.

 

[MrJeeves]

The engines I've looked at (Trainline, GWR, Uber) seem to offer 17.30 for earlier trains but higher for 03:54 train, which surprises me.

Probably because they arrive before 0430, so don't trigger the electronic restriction?

 

[TUC]

There are differences between the restriction codes applicable to the Off-Peak Return (SVR) and Off-Peak Day Return (CDR).

The SVR's restriction code, FP, says "not valid until 09:30" with no exception for travel starting pre-04:30, so it's not valid on the 03:54. The CDR's restriction code, O9, says "not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:30 and before 09:30", so it is valid on the 03:54.

Given that the pre-0430 validity is part of the underlying conditions of all SVR and CDR tickets, does it need explicitly stating within the restriction code, particularly since it relates to a continuation of the previous day's validity?

 

[Watershed]

Given that the pre-0430 validity is part of the underlying conditions of all SVR and CDR tickets, does it need explicitly stating within the restriction code, particularly since it relates to a continuation of the previous day's validity?

There is a difference between "this ticket expires at 04:29 the day after issue" and "this ticket has no time restrictions between midnight and 04:29".

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a difference between "this ticket expires at 04:29 the day after issue" and "this ticket has no time restrictions between midnight and 04:29".

Curiously the Network Railcard T&C says "not before 10am" but doesn't specify 0430 as the start of the restriction, but in practice tickets are sold on that basis, at least from the Trainline based sites.