Off Peak ticket validity - WCML

[DarloRich]

Question: Is there a difference in validity for off peak tickets travelling north from Milton Keynes on Fridays as opposed to other days of the week? Are there different rules for LNWR & Avanti?

I have been asked a question by a friend and the answer is confusing me! He has an off peak return ( out Friday and back Sunday) that he says has offered validity on the 0650 Avanti to Edinburgh.

 

[Adam Williams]

What's the restriction code associated with your friend's off-peak return ticket?

 

[Haywain]

Question: Is there a difference in validity for off peak tickets travelling north from Milton Keynes on Fridays as opposed to other days of the week?

Yes.

Are there different rules for LNWR & Avanti?

Yes.

Some (all?) Avanti Off Peak restrictions do not apply on Fridays. LNR Off Peak restrictions do apply on Fridays.

 

[DarloRich]

Some (all?) Avanti Off Peak restrictions do not apply on Fridays. LNR Off Peak restrictions do apply on Fridays.

of course! thank you!

Considering the above: Do Avanti essentially treat Friday as an extra Saturday

 

[Haywain]

Do Avanti essentially treat Friday as an extra Saturday

No, because they still have restrictions on some Off Peak Day tickets into London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

of course! thank you!

Considering the above: Do Avanti essentially treat Friday as an extra Saturday

As far as long distance Off Peaks go yes.

This curiously has the effect of making a trip to Birmingham cheaper on Avanti than on LNR in the Friday morning peak. (There are unpublished restrictions preventing an itinerary being issued on LNR using the interavailable fare, however these don't have any force if you just rocked up and used LNR, so I'm not sure what would happen if you did!)

 

[DarloRich]

No, because they still have restrictions on some Off Peak Day tickets into London.

Good clarification. Thank you. I meant OUT of London

 

[Benjwri]

As far as long distance Off Peaks go yes.

I wouldn’t say that’s a blanket rule, for example Milton Keynes to Edinburgh, priced by Avanti, has Friday restrictions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn’t say that’s a blanket rule, for example Milton Keynes to Edinburgh, priced by Avanti, has Friday restrictions.

No it doesn't, I just checked.

Outward:​	NO DEP FROM LDN EUS PRE 0905 Mon-Thurs​
Return:​	NO ARR IN LDN EUS PRE 1005 Mon-Thurs​

The restriction as written is a bit cack handed on all of them. Under a section marked "Monday-Friday" each line has a line "(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays)". Lord knows why they did it that way.

 

[jfollows]

Indeed:

​
​
RESTRICTIONS
Restriction Code: 5F Restricted Days: Monday to Friday Mondays to Fridays​
Outward travel: Not valid on trains timed to depart: London Euston after 04:29 and before 09:05;(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays) Watford Junction after 04:29 and before 09:00;(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays) Milton Keynes Central after 04:29 and before 09:00.(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays) Valid on all Caledonian Sleeper services (with supplement).
Return travel: Not valid on trains timed to arrive: London Euston after 04:29 and before 10:05;(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays) Watford Junction after 04:29 and before 10:20;(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays) Milton Keynes Central after 04:29 and before 10:20.(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays) Valid on all Caledonian Sleeper services (with supplement).

 

[Watershed]

Yes.

Some (all?) Avanti Off Peak restrictions do not apply on Fridays. LNR Off Peak restrictions do apply on Fridays.

To clarify, the applicable restrictions depend on the wording of the restriction code, and not necessarily the operator you use.

For most Avanti-set Off-Peak fares to/from stations between London and Milton Keynes (inclusive), there are no time restrictions on Fridays. That remains the case even if you use West Midlands Trains (LNR/WMR branded) services.

WMT-set Off-Peak fares have no such Friday easement, and they apply on all weekdays. That remains the case even if you use Avanti services.

This curiously has the effect of making a trip to Birmingham cheaper on Avanti than on LNR in the Friday morning peak. (There are unpublished restrictions preventing an itinerary being issued on LNR using the interavailable fare, however these don't have any force if you just rocked up and used LNR, so I'm not sure what would happen if you did!)

There are no such unpublished restrictions; a Milton Keynes/London-Birmingham Off-Peak Return may be used on WMT at anytime on Fridays, just as it can be on Avanti.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are:

Not valid to depart​

any location​

0430–0929​

on WEST MIDLANDS TRAINS​

 

[Watershed]

There are:

Not valid to depart​

any location​

0430–0929​

on WEST MIDLANDS TRAINS​

I can't see such restrictions anywhere for a 2C or 2D ticket, which are the most common ones in question here. What ticket are you looking at there?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are we still talking about an Off Peak Return from Milton Keynes Central to/from Edinburgh?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see such restrictions anywhere for a 2C or 2D ticket, which are the most common ones in question here. What ticket are you looking at there?

MKC to BHM Off Peak. 9I, which is the one used for the tighter restrictions that apply south of Preston.

 

[Watershed]

MKC to BHM Off Peak. 9I, which is the one used for the tighter restrictions that apply south of Preston.

Interesting that it's different for 9I vs 2C, which is the mirror restriction used for southbound tickets.

However, there's nothing in the restriction code text that conveys any restriction specifically on using WMT services. and I'd go so far as to say that this particular electronic restriction is in error, as it applies every day of the week - even on weekends.