Old Oak Common as the temporary HS2 terminus: how could passengers be dispersed from there?

[absolutelymilk]

As I understand it, when HS2 opens then Old Oak Common will be the terminus for a few years until the Euston Station rebuild is completed.

Has there been much information released about how this will work in terms of onward connections? Surely they can't be expecting everyone to jump onto an Elizabeth line train or trudge over to North Acton or Willesden Junction?

Are there plans for better pedestrian connections to these stations, or to improve bus routes to the station?

 

[stuu]

Why not? There will be 12tph on the EL starting there as well as the through services. Thats plenty of capacity. I would assume the station will be served by local buses as well. It is somewhat shambolic that a station on one or both Overground lines wasn't in the plan from the outset, and the outcome will be sub-optimal as a result, but we are where we are.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Why not? There will be 12tph on the EL starting there as well as the through services. Thats plenty of capacity. I would assume the station will be served by local buses as well. It is somewhat shambolic that a station on one or both Overground lines wasn't in the plan from the outset, and the outcome will be sub-optimal as a result, but we are where we are.

Fine as long as there's no disruption on the EL (planned or otherwise!)

 

[NIT100]

TfL gave evidence to the Oakervee review clearly stating that they thought EL line services would be severely overcrowded if Old Oak Common was used as the permanent terminus for HS2, obviously loading patterns are still different than they were when it was published but the fundamental principles of the Elizabeth Line are still the same, it was built primarily to relieve overcrowding on the central line, not to facilitate HS2. I don't know what the initial loading estimates are for when OOC is the temporary terminus, so that is really going to affect whether the Elizabeth Line is sufficient or not.

I do think the design of the station has been overly simplified reducing both opportunity for better interchange, and to future proof it. The removal of the flyover EL turnback sidings facing towards the New North Mainline effectively removes any scope for an extension in that direction. The costs of building new stations on the West London Line, North London Line and Central Line to interchange would not be insignificant, and North Acton would be close to a new central line station, but there would be interchange benefits.

 

[stuu]

There will also be 10 or more GW trains per hour into Paddington. Of course a trespasser at Westbourne Park would lead to significant issues. I'm sure someone has thought it through

 

[physics34]

Ive often thought a station again at Willesden Junction on the WCML would provide great connections. A mega wallwau from there to Old Oak common could provide the link...

 

[NIT100]

There will also be 10 or more GW trains per hour into Paddington. Of course a trespasser at Westbourne Park would lead to significant issues. I'm sure someone has thought it through

12.10 Evidence from Transport for London stated that Crossrail services would be extremely crowded if forced to disperse larger HS2 passenger numbers if Old Oak Common is the only London staton – this is the case even if Old Oak Common is used as the London terminus on a temporary basis. Even a reduced frequency of HS2 service to say 10tph would likely cause crowding issues in rush hour east of Paddington. Crossrail was designed to relieve the Central line and provide additional capacity for East-West travel. It was not designed for the onward movement of passengers from HS2. Crossrail services and their interchanges with the London Underground network would likely need to be enhanced to cope with the larger passenger numbers, or face significant crowding and disruption. The Mayor of London’s submission to the Review was unequivocal that he/Transport for London did not believe terminating HS2 at Old Oak Common station permanently would be a viable option.

From the Oakervee review: https://assets.publishing.service.g...tachment_data/file/870092/oakervee-review.pdf

At the time TfL stated that EL would be overcrowded even if Old Oak Common is used temporarily. The review is also critical in the lack of joined up thinking between HS2, NR and TfL in the design and construction of Euston, so I wouldn't always assume someone has thought it through.

 

[Snow1964]

Can anyone advise the timeliness, expected initial service on HS2 to Birmingham, when trains noth of Birmingham divert from Euston via HS2, when Birmingham-Crewe section opens and when Euston is open for majority of services, or when planned full service starts etc.

 

[NIT100]

Can anyone advise the timeliness, expected initial service on HS2 to Birmingham, when trains noth of Birmingham divert from Euston via HS2, when Birmingham-Crewe section opens and when Euston is open for majority of services, or when planned full service starts etc.

If you go to Annex B of the HS2 Phase 1 Full Business Case you will find what you are looking for (Page 128)

https://assets.publishing.service.g...e/939905/full-business-case-hs2-phase-one.pdf

The opening for Old Oak Common to Birmingham is stated to be 6tph, 3 to Birmingham, 1 to each of Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow, and open between 2029 and 2031. Increasing to 10tph once Euston and phase 2a is open. The last I heard of Euston is it had an opening date range of 2031 to 2036. Original plan for Full Y route was 17tph to London Euston and an extra 6tph from the North/Scotland terminating at Curzon Street. This is of course now meaningless with scrapping of eastern leg, Golborne link and continued backing of Northern Powerhouse rail. Phase 2a opening date is simply stated as the same range as Phase 1, 2029-2031. The proposed initial service level is the same whether it is open or not, as Euston is expected to be later.

Whether that is actually what will happen is impossible to say.

 

[Horizon22]

Fine as long as there's no disruption on the EL (planned or otherwise!)

Not really different to any other London terminal though? Everything runs fine if there's no disruption!

 

[absolutelymilk]

Not really different to any other London terminal though? Everything runs fine if there's no disruption!

All the other termini have multiple lines serving them (either directly or within a 5 minute walk) and are much more central

 

[david1212]

.... The opening for Old Oak Common to Birmingham is stated to be 6tph, 3 to Birmingham, 1 to each of Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow, and open between 2029 and 2031. ....

Working as a terminus is 6tph the realistic limit for the HS2 platforms and track at Old Oak Common station? At the west end how many platforms will be accessible from both the eastbound ( Euston ) and westbound ( Birmingham ) lines? Presuming completed will the proposed trackwork immediately east of Old Oak Common increase the number of platforms available for terminating trains?

 

[Parjon]

Not really different to any other London terminal though? Everything runs fine if there's no disruption!

Except that walking to wherever you're going isn't going to be an option, of which you're going to be left with one. Assuming crossrail isn't going to become dedicated to carrying decanted long distance passengers, I don't think the capacity is adequate. Especially at busy times!

 

[Route115?]

Would it be feasible to extend EL Westbourne Park turnback trains to Old Oak? I don't think the capacity would be an issue at 20 tph.

 

[The Planner]

Would it be feasible to extend EL Westbourne Park turnback trains to Old Oak? I don't think the capacity would be an issue at 20 tph.

Turn back sidings are/were planned at OOC. in between the Up and Down relief lines.

 

[absolutelymilk]

There will be 12tph on the EL starting there as well as the through services.

Don't suppose anyone has a link stating this? I think I've heard it before but haven't seen it confirmed anywhere

 

[Bald Rick]

Fine as long as there's no disruption on the EL (planned or otherwise!)

There will also be 10 or more GW trains per hour into Paddington. Of course a trespasser at Westbourne Park would lead to significant issues. I'm sure someone has thought it through

If there’s an issue on the GWML that prevents any eastbound service from OOC, it’s likely that HS2 services will be suspended.

 

[Horizon22]

Would it be feasible to extend EL Westbourne Park turnback trains to Old Oak? I don't think the capacity would be an issue at 20 tph.

That is intended in the plan for Old Oak Common.