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Oyster card £5 fee not reverted to credit after 12 months

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gray1404

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On 23/02/2020 I purchased an Oyster Card online. This was for £10 and consisted of £5 card credit and a £5 card fee which would revert to Oyster credit after 12 months. I believe this was the system in place at the time I purchased the card.

I am yet to use the Oyster card after all this time but I did register it at the time. I have just logged onto the online account and I can see this card. However it only shows as having £5 credit and not the £10 that I was expecting.

Do I need to raise this with TfL Customer Service as I am positive at that time the £5 card fee was to revert to credit after 12 months.
 
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CyrusWuff

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The Buying tickets and Oyster page on the TfL website says you need to make a journey to get the £5 credit, but suggests you only have a six month window from the anniversary date in which to do so or you lose it.
 

gray1404

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I'll be submitting a complaint to TfL then as the line "You must collect your refund within six months or you won't be eligible to receive it" certainly was not stipulated when I purchased the Oyster card and contractual terms cannot be added after without consent of both parties.
 

island

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In practice TfL will just give you the credit to make you go away, but you'll still have to make a journey (within 4 days of it being granted, if memory serves) to collect it.
 

Wolfie

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In practice TfL will just give you the credit to make you go away, but you'll still have to make a journey (within 4 days of it being granted, if memory serves) to collect it.
That sounds about right. If you have a problem with charges the options are either a refund to the card (but you need to be making a journey in the next few - three comes to mind - days) or a BACS transfer to your bank account.
 

MrJeeves

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I was under the impression that if you made a journey after 12 months, it would be refunded automatically then. The credit online shows the amount actually on the card as far as TfL know, not how much you could hypothetically have next time you touch in/out.

If you don't touch in soon after the 12 months (I don't remember the actual time period), then you won't get the £5 added immediately. Instead, the system must detect your card has been used, realise it never gave you the £5, process a £5 refund, then wait for you to make another journey to actually update the card's balance.

If you don't make another journey in the few days after the first journey, the credit refund will "time out" and you'll have to start again (i.e., make another journey to make the system realise it still needs to refund you, etc.).

I'm sure that @MikeWh will come along and correct me (and/or others) if needed, as the expert on all things Oyster!

Edit: would have been easier to consult MikeWh's website, wouldn't it!

https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/topping-up/

FUL is the name of the system used to transfer topups, refunds and products to Oyster cards when the request is generated remotely from the card.

The main list is sent to every station, tramstop and bus. The amount of topup/refund, or travelcard/bus pass will be added as soon as the Oyster card is touched on a reader as part of a journey (can be entry, exit or interchange). Items remain on the main list for three whole days, plus the hours between request and midnight when the customer orders the topup or product. At the end of that time the item is deleted from the main list.

[...]

If it was an automatically generated adjustment or refund then the item moves to the reserve list. This is because TfL can’t be certain how the item could be refunded.

[...]

The reserve list is held on the central database and is checked every time a card touch is received by the central system. Once a match has been made the item is transferred back to the main list as a new request with a new 3-and-a-bit day duration. In most cases this means that the amount will be added on the second touch (either touch out from a train or touch on a second bus journey). Items remain on the reserve list for six months from the initial creation date. After that time they will no longer be automatically re-queued to the main list, but details can be accessed by customer services should the customer decide to request the refund at a later date.

The two main uses of the reserve list are: [...] (b) refunds of the £5 card fee after one year. In the case of the card fee the request is actually placed on the reserve list first because there is no guarantee that the card is still in regular use.

In a nutshell, after 12 months of having the Oyster, the card number and the £5 refund is placed on the reserve Faster Universal Load list, where it will remain for the next 6 months.

If you touch in within this 12-18 month period, your card number and the £5 will be moved to the main list, which is sent to every Oyster validator. When you next touch in/out after a validator has updated its main list, the card will be credited the £5.

If you don't make a journey within this 12-18 month period, the £5 credit won't be re-added unless you contact customer services to ask for it, then they can manually reinstate it, and you'll have another 6 months to collect the credit.
 
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MikeWh

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I'll be submitting a complaint to TfL then as the line "You must collect your refund within six months or you won't be eligible to receive it" certainly was not stipulated when I purchased the Oyster card and contractual terms cannot be added after without consent of both parties.
If I'm being honest, I think TfL made a mistake by changing this detail. The intention was to reward Oyster card holders who were still using the card after a year, rather than cashing the deposit in and rendering the card useless* after a few days. When implimented, it was certainly the intention that you could still get the refund after the six months by calling customer services. I don't know what happened to change the plan.
In practice TfL will just give you the credit to make you go away, but you'll still have to make a journey (within 4 days of it being granted, if memory serves) to collect it.
I agree with this. If you are going to write and complain, please ensure that you will be able to make a journey using the card shortly afterwards. This is one refund that will only be supplied to the Oyster card via travel because it is rewarding continued use of the card. If this might be a problem for you then perhaps look to loan the card to a London based friend. Bear in mind that if you have never used the card for travel you are not in a particularly strong position to claim that the card is still being used.

*The reason the card becomes useless is tied in with data protection. Initially cards could be re-used if cashed in while still working, but certain information remains on the card almost indefinitely and development to change that was not considered worthwhile, especially since most PAYG use is now made with contactless cards/devices.



Edit: would have been easier to consult MikeWh's website, wouldn't it!
No comment!
 

DeverseSam

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If you touch in at 10:00 on a bus on the 366th day, and touch in on another bus at 10:45 on the same day, does that trigger the refund?
 

MrJeeves

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@DeverseSam
If you touch in within this 12-18 month period, your card number and the £5 will be moved to the main list, which is sent to every Oyster validator. When you next touch in/out after a validator has updated its main list, the card will be credited the £5.
My understanding is yes.
 

MikeWh

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If you touch in at 10:00 on a bus on the 366th day, and touch in on another bus at 10:45 on the same day, does that trigger the refund?
It certainly should have done. You also wouldn't be charged for the second bus journey. It's been more than a year since the refundable fee was replaced by a non-refundable £7, so the question is now moot.
 

DeverseSam

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It certainly should have done. You also wouldn't be charged for the second bus journey. It's been more than a year since the refundable fee was replaced by a non-refundable £7, so the question is now moot.
Thank you. When the no refund announcement was made, I quickly went and bought a few in an attempt to get the limited edition, so I now need to use them before the 18 months.

I am curious as to how often oyster validators on buses are updated with the “main list” given there seems to be a half hour rule
 

MikeWh

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I am curious as to how often oyster validators on buses are updated with the “main list” given there seems to be a half hour rule
At least every half an hour I would assume. The update doesn't have to include the full list, just those which have been added or taken away.
 

zero

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If you touch in at 10:00 on a bus on the 366th day, and touch in on another bus at 10:45 on the same day, does that trigger the refund?

I did this with all my "free" oysters this and last year. I got one refund on the second bus at 20 minutes after the first touch.

(The logistics became a lot easier when the collection period was extended from a few days to 6 months, so I didn't need to make any unnecessary journeys)
 
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