Paid fine with IRCAS but received email from fraud team

[Daily R]

Hope someone can shed light.
A relative of mine was caught at their home station by an inspector with a ticket they purchased as they got off the train due to their original journey changing and not purchasing sooner, this was flagged by inspector when they scanned it. They were interviewed by the inspector etc… they then received a letter from IRCAS to provide more info, which they immediately responded to apologising for the mistake. Received another letter asking them to make call to pay the fine. Fine was paid and IRCAS said case closed. Fast forward a week and they have now received an email from the fraud team threatening another fine and imprisonment. This has created an immense amount of stress and affecting their mental health. They have called IRCAS who said the case should be closed and to respond with all relevant info showing the fine is paid, this has also been done. Now a waiting game to hear back to whether it is an admin error or can they actually take this further even after IRCAS issued the fine and said the case is closed?

Any help or knowledge would be appreciated.

 

[jeremyjh]

Was this for a one-off journey or have they done this multiple times?

 

[SuspectUsual]

It's possible that your relative's previous ticket purchase history has been investigated as a result of the initial stop, and they may think they've found something irregular. Can you post the exact text of the fraud team email (omitting any names / reference numbers)?

 

[Daily R]

It's possible that your relative's previous ticket purchase history has been investigated as a result of the initial stop, and they may think they've found something irregular. Can you post the exact text of the fraud team email (omitting any names / reference numbers)?

Thank you for your response. The email:

We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on … when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.

Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.

At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.

….

Would this not have been reviewed by ICRAS before sending out the fine?

Thank you!

 

[swt_passenger]

You need to tell us exactly what it is you have already paid for. It might have been an Unpaid Fare Notice, (UFN), which is a bill for the fare you should have paid, or it might have been a Penalty Fare, (PF), of £100 (£50 if paid early) plus the fare.

Neither of those is really a ‘fine’, but it should be clear from the paperwork what it is you’ve already paid them, and why.

 

[Daily R]

You need to tell us exactly what it is you have already paid for. It might have been an unpaid fare notice, which is a bill for the fare you should have paid, or it might have been a Penalty Fare, of £100 (£50 if paid early) plus the fare. Neither of those is really a ‘fine’, but it should be clear from the paperwork what it is you’ve already paid them, and why.

The fine was £180 in total for not having the correct ticket for the journey carried out.

 

[Pushpit]

Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. I

This seems to me to be a case where the traveller paid the penalty for the latest trip due to the ticket not being valid. Then IRCAS/TOC delved into the previous transactions made by that traveller and can see a pattern of behaviour that looks suspicious to their minds. So in other words, that latest trip appears not to be the only example of this happening. The traveller concerned will know if there is a pattern of fraudulent behaviour or not, and thus the advice that could be offered here would depend on which of those two scenarios applies.

 

[swt_passenger]

The fine was £180 in total for not having the correct ticket for the journey carried out.

What was the breakdown, how much of that was a fare?

 

[AlterEgo]

Would this not have been reviewed by ICRAS before sending out the fine?

Was this a Penalty Fare? it sounds like this initial "fine" addresses only the single incident they were caught red handed, but upon review they have found your relative has been systematically fare evading.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Was this a Penalty Fare? it sounds like this initial "fine" addresses only the single incident they were caught red handed, but upon review they have found your relative has been systematically fare evading.

I don't think it can have been a PF as from the OP's initial post the amount owing wasn't communicated until after the event

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think it can have been a PF as from the OP's initial post the amount owing wasn't communicated until after the event

It may have been an unusually fast administrative settlement. My earlier suggestions of an UFN or a PF would surely both have been clear from the initial paperwork.

 

[WesternLancer]

Parallels with this case as per thread link below if the OP wants to peruse - different type of ticket offence (use of Railcard that was not actually held) but the approach of the train company is very similar. Again the OP will need to consider (or suggest to their relative) what to do about potentially confessing to previous ticket evasion that may have happened, if indeed that is what may have happened.

Digital Fraud Team email.

I received an email recently from the digital Fraud team. Email below ... 'when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket with a railcard attached and were unable to present your railcard, therefore you would not have...

www.railforums.co.uk

Would this not have been reviewed by ICRAS before sending out the fine?

Thank you!

I don't think you can assume it would have been, not necessarily.

 

[Daily R]

What was the breakdown, how much of that was a fare?

£175 and £5 admin fee.

 

[AlterEgo]

£175 and £5 admin fee.

I think we are going to need some more details to give proper advice. Can you post whatever paperwork was received, with personal details obscured, along with a description of exactly what has happened and which journeys are involved?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hope someone can shed light.
A relative of mine was caught at their home station by an inspector with a ticket they purchased as they got off the train due to their original journey changing and not purchasing sooner, this was flagged by inspector when they scanned it. They were interviewed by the inspector etc… they then received a letter from IRCAS to provide more info, which they immediately responded to apologising for the mistake. Received another letter asking them to make call to pay the fine. Fine was paid and IRCAS said case closed. Fast forward a week and they have now received an email from the fraud team threatening another fine and imprisonment. This has created an immense amount of stress and affecting their mental health. They have called IRCAS who said the case should be closed and to respond with all relevant info showing the fine is paid, this has also been done. Now a waiting game to hear back to whether it is an admin error or can they actually take this further even after IRCAS issued the fine and said the case is closed?

Any help or knowledge would be appreciated.

Obv this is going to sound like I'm saying your relative may not have told you the full story but you say :

a ticket they purchased as they got off the train due to their original journey changing and not purchasing sooner,

so this can look like 'pay when challenged' behaviour - ie passenger hopes that there will be no staff or barrier line check when they get off so only buy a ticket there and then.

could your relative have done this on other occasions?

Can your relative show they had a ticket from their origin station to the original planned destination?

I suspect that on further investigation of the passengers ticket buying records the train company thinks some are suspicious

this could include things like
- short faring (buying a ticket to get through the barrier but not for the whole journey - eg New Street to Five Ways ticket but travelling beyond Five Ways, or vice versa)
- refunding tickets that are not scanned en route, after having used them
- only buying a ticket when barriers look like they are closed at station of departure

It might be worth you having a private chat with your relative to see if they might have done any of those things. Most if not all of them will be traceable if tickets are bought on line and tickets scanned, or other pointers give rise to suspicion (eg tickets regularly bought from a station that is not near your home address and perhaps used at a time you might be expected to be going to and from home)

The train companies know that people who evade fares usually don't get caught on the 1st occasion, so they are increasingly using data they hold to check the records of people who they do find with ticket irrgularities. Obviously innocent passengers can get caught up in this too.