Paper Eurrail Pass rejected by GWR staff claiming "no reservations made"

[hkstudent]

I got a friend from Hong Kong visiting me got a Eurrail global pass in paper form which requires to write the itinerary on paper.

However the barriers staff at Paddington today rejected him and claiming a online reservation on mobile app (which is only for mobile pass) is needed and required him to buy a ticket for his journey to Swindon.

Is the staff in the wrong, and can my friend got refund from GWR. He got a single e ticket in panic from trainline.

 

[AlterEgo]

According to EUrail's own site, a seat reservation is not required on GWR using an Eurail pass.

You should complain.

 

[LowLevel]

Why do people worry about this kind of minutiae

If it's a paper BritRail with boxes, make sure they're filled in if applicable. Anything else to do with BritRail, EUrail, Interrail - just smile, nod and move on

 

[hkstudent]

Why do people worry about this kind of minutiae

If it's a paper BritRail with boxes, make sure they're filled in if applicable. Anything else to do with BritRail, EUrail, Interrail - just smile, nod and move on

Guess he was passing by wide barrier with most people in bar code ticket and need staff assistance. That staff likely didn't switch channel of thinking. Sigh.

 

[Watershed]

I got a friend from Hong Kong visiting me got a Eurrail global pass in paper form which requires to write the itinerary on paper.

However the barriers staff at Paddington today rejected him and claiming a online reservation on mobile app (which is only for mobile pass) is needed and required him to buy a ticket for his journey to Swindon.

Is the staff in the wrong, and can my friend got refund from GWR. He got a single e ticket in panic from trainline.

The rejection makes absolutely no sense. No reservations are requited for travel on GWR. Even the Riviera sleeper doesn't mandate them in the seats!

Definitely raise a complaint with GWR and ask for an apology as well as reimbursement of the additional fare paid. If your friend had to miss a train to buy the new ticket, then they should claim Delay Repay as well.

 

[Kite159]

Sounds like it's a member of the Paddington gateline staff making it up as they go along again

 

[yorkie]

If he got the replacement ticket from GWR, and paid by credit card, a chargeback would be an option.

Anyway GWR will need to refund the cost of the replacement ticket in full, as well as provide a suitable apology/compensation (do they still do scratch cards for travel from any station to any station on a date of the customers choosing? I've successfully helped obtain these for customers who have been wronged in the past)

Unfortunately GWR do have a habit of rejecting valid tickets; I am aware of a lot more incidents than get reported on this forum. Paddington is a hotspot for such behaviour but it occurs elsewhere too.

In fact I'd say GWR are the worst offenders on the entire National Rail network. It comes from the top; there is something very rotten there.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sounds like it's a member of the Paddington gateline staff making it up as they go along again

It’s likely the staff member having used Eurail themselves. It does require a reservation on very many intercity trains, obtained via the Eurail site. Just, not in the UK, on GWR.

 

[WesternLancer]

Another Paddington Gateline error (like the ones featured in Barry Doe's recent Rail columns on at least 2 occasions with staff refusing access to off peak ticket holders at times when their tickets were valid) - seems that if not much done about this sort of thing following publicity by a columnist in a national sector publication not much hope they will be doing anything about it ever...

 

[miklcct]

Another Paddington Gateline error (like the ones featured in Barry Doe's recent Rail columns on at least 2 occasions with staff refusing access to off peak ticket holders at times when their tickets were valid) - seems that if not much done about this sort of thing following publicity by a columnist in a national sector publication not much hope they will be doing anything about it ever...

Are there many such instances to warrant a class action lawsuit?

 

[Flying Snail]

Of course this sort of thing is made far more likely due to tourists with these tickets being forced to interact with gateline staff at all barrier-ed stations.

If RDG or whoever is responsible would do their jobs and get the gates properly programmed to accept valid Eurail, Interrail and Britrail tickets then users wouldn't have to run the gauntlet of ignorant gateline assistants making up their own rules.

 

[WesternLancer]

Of course this sort of thing is made far more likely due to tourists with these tickets being forced to interact with gateline staff at all barrier-ed stations.

If RDG or whoever is responsible would do their jobs and get the gates properly programmed to accept valid Eurail, Interrail and Britrail tickets then users wouldn't have to run the gauntlet of ignorant gateline assistants making up their own rules.

Indeed - or if the railway does not want to pay to train people thoroughly in their complex ticketing systems they need to simplify their ticket rules.

 

[Haywain]

If RDG or whoever is responsible would do their jobs and get the gates properly programmed to accept valid Eurail, Interrail and Britrail tickets

The problem with that is that the barcodes are not in the right format to operate our gates. On-train and gateline staff cannot currently check the barcodes so have to carry out visual checks. It is something RDG is working to resolve.

 

[Flying Snail]

The problem with that is that the barcodes are not in the right format to operate our gates. Even on-train staff have to use an app on their phone, rather than their normal barcode reader, to check the barcodes. It is something RDG is trying to resolve.

While that may apply to Eurail/Interrail (although I can think of a very obvious simple solution to it) it doesn't apply to Britrail which is under the direct control of RDG and is in the "correct" format, but still doesn't work any gatelines.

 

[CyrusWuff]

While that may apply to Eurail/Interrail (although I can think of a very obvious simple solution to it) it doesn't apply to Britrail which is under the direct control of RDG and is in the "correct" format, but still doesn't work any gatelines.

Britrail acceptance depends on gatelines being programmed correctly. The necessary info should be on Knowledgebase, and it says the relevant decryption keys were pushed out in March 2017.

How easy it is to get data tables updated I can't say, however. Doubly so for London area stations, where I believe updates have to go through TfL because of the Oyster/Contactless functionality on the gates.

 

[Flying Snail]

Britrail acceptance depends on gatelines being programmed correctly. The necessary info should be on Knowledgebase, and it says the relevant decryption keys were pushed out in March 2017.

How easy it is to get data tables updated I can't say, however. Doubly so for London area stations, where I believe updates have to go through TfL because of the Oyster/Contactless functionality on the gates.

Using one in Apr/May 2022 opened precisely 0 gates throughout the country. Two (friendly and knowledgeable) gateline staff at Leeds actually remarked that Britrail never works on the gates while letting me through.

2017 is only 5 years ago, I'm sure this update will come through any day now.

 

[RT4038]

Indeed - or if the railway does not want to pay to train people thoroughly in their complex ticketing systems they need to simplify their ticket rules.

or indeed the types of ticket on offer..... Be careful what you wish for.

 

[hkstudent]

The problem with that is that the barcodes are not in the right format to operate our gates. On-train and gateline staff cannot currently check the barcodes so have to carry out visual checks. It is something RDG is working to resolve.

In some posts years in International Transport area, the e ticket of Interrail / Eurrail can only work with Dutch gateline, not even other countries.

 

[Flying Snail]

In some posts years in International Transport area, the e ticket of Interrail / Eurrail can only work with Dutch gateline, not even other countries.

Some countries do not consistently man gatelines at all which can be very hard to easily navigate with non-local tickets but in most cases these are on commuter and the odd regional network. Most of Europe still has ungated access to long distance and regional trains.

 

[nanstallon]

GWR need to train their gateline staff quickly. What sort of impression do foreign tourists form of this country, when they get messed about by ignorant jobsworths?

Sorry, I forgot - on the railway the customer is always wrong.

 

[BJames]

Sounds like it's a member of the Paddington gateline staff making it up as they go along again

It does indeed. Frequent occurrence, as I found on Saturday - trying to prevent me getting to the platform because she couldn't see the board that said the train was boarding, even though a) it was and she made no effort to look at it and b) when I pointed at the train in question which had everyone else boarding, she said "well why don't you go ahead and get on the wrong train" (I couldn't get through because my ticket wouldn't work the barrier - but fortunately another member of gateline staff waved me and the other customers she was arguing with through).

GWR need to train their gateline staff quickly. What sort of impression do foreign tourists form of this country, when they get messed about by ignorant jobsworths?

Sorry, I forgot - on the railway the customer is always wrong.

Quite - they need some serious customer-friendly training over at Paddington - as the OP has found, rejecting perfectly valid tickets because their staff don't understand. What's happened to the old concept of asking your supervisor/superior if you don't know!? Instead they act like they do know and anyone trying to correct them is automatically wrong and a pain for them to deal with.

 

[AlterEgo]

Quite - they need some serious customer-friendly training over at Paddington - as the OP has found, rejecting perfectly valid tickets because their staff don't understand. What's happened to the old concept of asking your supervisor/superior if you don't know!? Instead they act like they do know

The staff here did seem to think they knew the answer, giving a specific rebuttal that you must reserve seats online on a dedicated website. This is right in most Eurail countries, just not the UK, with GWR. It's not like they made it up, they did recall an Eurail restriction, but likely from their own experience, which simply didn't apply.

 

[Mainline421]

If RDG or whoever is responsible would do their jobs and get the gates properly programmed to accept valid Eurail, Interrail and Britrail tickets then users wouldn't have to run the gauntlet of ignorant gateline assistants making up their own rules.

In this case it's a paper ticket issued on standard intentional stock, there isn't a barcode.

The staff here did seem to think they knew the answer, giving a specific rebuttal that you must reserve seats online on a dedicated website. This is right in most Eurail countries, just not the UK, with GWR. It's not like they made it up, they did recall an Eurail restriction, but likely from their own experience, which simply didn't apply.

There isn't a reservation requirement specific to Eurail, it basically works the same as any rover just with the requirement to write down the trains you take. Where reservations are needed (e.g TGVs) they don't have to be made through any specific website and can be made at the ticket office like usual. In this case it seems the gateline staff may have only encountered the new e-ticket version where entering a journey generates a barcode and weren't familiar with the paper one where you just write it down in the box provided. I'd expect a station like Paddington to encounter enough of these tickets so this is odd.

 

[Flying Snail]

In this case it's a paper ticket issued on standard intentional stock, there isn't a barcode.

AFAIK there is now a (QR?) barcode on the covers of current paper passes. Haven't seen one myself and it may not apply in the OPs case.

There isn't a reservation requirement specific to Eurail, it basically works the same as any rover just with the requirement to write down the trains you take. Where reservations are needed (e.g TGVs) they don't have to be made through any specific website and can be made at the ticket office like usual. In this case it seems the gateline staff may have only encountered the new e-ticket version where entering a journey generates a barcode and weren't familiar with the paper one where you just write it down in the box provided. I'd expect a station like Paddington to encounter enough of these tickets so this is odd.

In Britain there are no specific requirements for reservations or restrictions on where they can be obtained, that is not true for some countries such as France, Spain, Italy. There are tiny Interrail quotas for most international TGV services, special fees on many reservation compulsory trains and there is a long list of countries where obtaining reservations is far more difficult than it should be up to the peak of Spain where it is almost impossible except for Spanish ticket offices.

This is going off topic though and the basic point that gates should be programmed to accept these tickets if they have scannable codes and gateline staff have no excuse for being so utterly ignorant of ticket types still stands. Even if they are that ignorant the basic standard is that they should only refuse people when they are certain a ticket is invalid rather than it being ok to refuse someone based on a vague notion they may have.

 

[Mainline421]

AFAIK there is now a (QR?) barcode on the covers of current paper passes. Haven't seen one myself and it may not apply in the OPs case.



In Britain there are no specific requirements for reservations or restrictions on where they can be obtained, that is not true for some countries such as France, Spain, Italy. There are tiny Interrail quotas for most international TGV services, special fees on many reservation compulsory trains and there is a long list of countries where obtaining reservations is far more difficult than it should be up to the peak of Spain where it is almost impossible except for Spanish ticket offices.

This is going off topic though and the basic point that gates should be programmed to accept these tickets if they have scannable codes and gateline staff have no excuse for being so utterly ignorant of ticket types still stands. Even if they are that ignorant the basic standard is that they should only refuse people when they are certain a ticket is invalid rather than it being ok to refuse someone based on a vague notion they may have.

My mistake. Yes there is barcode on the back assuming it's the same as Interrail, although this isn't the journey-specific one the staff were thinking of (and it didn't open the barriers in Rome when I tried a few weeks ago either). Bit late now, but showing that barcode might have have convinced the staff actually even if they couldn't scan it.

My point was that reservations don't have to be obtained through Eurail, there's actually an extra €2 fee for doing so, and countries like the UK can't even be booked there. Incidentally for an extra €10 SNCF ticket offices can still issue Interrail reservations after the quota is sold out, just not online.

 

[Lewlew]

That QR/Aztec/whatever code on the paper versions of the Interrail tickets are for the new ticket gates in The Netherlands.

 

[AdamWW]

That QR/Aztec/whatever code on the paper versions of the Interrail tickets are for the new ticket gates in The Netherlands.

Looks like an Aztec code to me.

According to the wording on the pass covers, they are now for use in Italy and France as well. Not the UK though.

(I did have a DB guard on a train once have an attempt at scanning the code - nothing happened so they gave up and wandered off rather than actually opening the cover to see if there was a valid ticket inside).

The only problem I've had in the UK with an interrail pass was someone on a barrier line objecting to the fact that I hadn't filled in a travel day. I explained that travel days were only required for flexi-passes which this one wasn't, and they gave in.

Not related to interrail passes but the worst experiences I've had at barriers have been in Paddington, as it happens.

 

[DeverseSam]

Another Paddington Gateline error (like the ones featured in Barry Doe's recent Rail columns on at least 2 occasions with staff refusing access to off peak ticket holders at times when their tickets were valid) - seems that if not much done about this sort of thing following publicity by a columnist in a national sector publication not much hope they will be doing anything about it ever...

There’s a guy working at the gateline there who has been there for years, he has dyed hair. Just wondering could someone get him on board in reading these threads and cascade his learnings to the others?