Part of an advance ticket (not connection) served by a mix of reservable and unreservable trains - ticket validity?

[miklcct]

For questions 1 & 2, let's take Portsmouth Harbour - Clapham Junction with SWR only advance ticket as an example, departing on the 10:45 train to Woking on a weekday. The arrival into Woking is 11:56 where I need to connect to a train into Clapham Junction. The next train to Clapham Junction is 12:03, which is unreservable, but it is overtaken by a reservable train departing at 12:17.

Questions here:
1. If I specify the 12:17 train in the journey planner, making both legs reservable, will the ticket come with reservations specified on both legs, such that I must take both trains according the itinerary? Specifically, on a paper ticket, will it come with a reservation coupon with both legs, and on an e-ticket, will it come with the words "No specific seat" on both legs in the itinerary?
2a. If I specify the 12:03 train in the journey planner, will it come with only a reservation on the Portsmouth - Woking leg? If I get a paper ticket, will it only contain a single reservation to Woking only but nothing about Woking - Clapham Junction? If I get an e-ticket, will it come with the words "No specific seat" on the Portsmouth - Woking leg?
2b. Using the above ticket in question 2a, can I have a coffee at the interchange station, then take the 12:17 (reservable) or the 12:22 (unreservable) train instead?

Question 3 is related to a different journey.
I have an SWR only advance e-ticket from Bournemouth, with an itinerary specifying Bournemouth 10:59-12:19 No specific seat Woking 12:29-12:57 Clapham Junction. Note that the word "No specific seat" doesn't appear for the 2nd leg.

3. Am I entitled take the 12:22 train from Woking instead (also unreservable), which is an illegal connection? Does the answer change if the itinerary shows an unreservable legal connection, but I take an illegal connection on a reservable train?

 

[infobleep]

For questions 1 & 2, let's take Portsmouth Harbour - Clapham Junction with SWR only advance ticket as an example, departing on the 10:45 train to Woking on a weekday. The arrival into Woking is 11:56 where I need to connect to a train into Clapham Junction. The next train to Clapham Junction is 12:03, which is unreservable, but it is overtaken by a reservable train departing at 12:17.

Questions here:
1. If I specify the 12:17 train in the journey planner, making both legs reservable, will the ticket come with reservations specified on both legs, such that I must take both trains according the itinerary? Specifically, on a paper ticket, will it come with a reservation coupon with both legs, and on an e-ticket, will it come with the words "No specific seat" on both legs in the itinerary?
2a. If I specify the 12:03 train in the journey planner, will it come with only a reservation on the Portsmouth - Woking leg? If I get a paper ticket, will it only contain a single reservation to Woking only but nothing about Woking - Clapham Junction? If I get an e-ticket, will it come with the words "No specific seat" on the Portsmouth - Woking leg?
2b. Using the above ticket in question 2a, can I have a coffee at the interchange station, then take the 12:17 (reservable) or the 12:22 (unreservable) train instead?

Question 3 is related to a different journey.
I have an SWR only advance e-ticket from Bournemouth, with an itinerary specifying Bournemouth 10:59-12:19 No specific seat Woking 12:29-12:57 Clapham Junction. Note that the word "No specific seat" doesn't appear for the 2nd leg.

3. Am I entitled take the 12:22 train from Woking instead (also unreservable), which is an illegal connection? Does the answer change if the itinerary shows an unreservable legal connection, but I take an illegal connection on a reservable train?

If you have part of a journey that isn't reservable then you can take any train. I hadn't thought about doing this on South Western Railway vut then they don't do advances from Guildford to Clapham Junction.

With the ticket from Bournemouth, does it say anywhere on the ticket that the itinerary is optional for Woking to Clapham Junction at any point? If not I'm not sure on this one

 

[4COR]

Re 3: If you can make the connection to the 12:22 at Woking with a 3 min interchange time, then you are entitled to take it. I don't think you would be able to claim delay repay on that journey.

 

[miklcct]

With the ticket from Bournemouth, does it say anywhere on the ticket that the itinerary is optional for Woking to Clapham Junction at any point? If not I'm not sure on this one

Re 3: If you can make the connection to the 12:22 at Woking with a 3 min interchange time, then you are entitled to take it. I don't think you would be able to claim delay repay on that journey.

The e-ticket I held didn't mention the word "optional" any point, only the words "mandatory reservation", so I thought I had to wait for the 12:29 train at that time as I was new to the UK and had never used advance paper tickets and didn't realise at that time if I chose to use paper ticket I wouldn't get a reservation coupon for the 12:29 train. (On that day, the 12:22 train was pulling into the platform at the time I reached the platform at 12:23, so I immediately regretted buying that ticket without checking the timetable carefully if there was an earlier departure than 12:29)

I don't want to repeat the same mistake in the future so I need to define clear answer if I can get onto an earlier train on an unreservable leg with an e-ticket, as the Term and Conditions shown in the National Rail website seems to say no:

Tickets are valid ONLY on the date and train service(s) shown on the ticket(s).

If this is to be interpreted literally, because the 12:29 train is shown on my ticket, I have to wait for that train, and it will mean loss of passenger rights on an e-ticket compared to a paper ticket. If that's true I'll only use paper tickets on the future for advance tickets.

 

[infobleep]

The e-ticket I held didn't mention the word "optional" any point, only the words "mandatory reservation", so I thought I had to wait for the 12:29 train at that time as I was new to the UK and had never used advance paper tickets and didn't realise at that time if I chose to use paper ticket I wouldn't get a reservation coupon for the 12:29 train. (On that day, the 12:22 train was pulling into the platform at the time I reached the platform at 12:23, so I immediately regretted buying that ticket without checking the timetable carefully if there was an earlier departure than 12:29)

I don't want to repeat the same mistake in the future so I need to define clear answer if I can get onto an earlier train on an unreservable leg with an e-ticket, as the Term and Conditions shown in the National Rail website seems to say no:



If this is to be interpreted literally, because the 12:29 train is shown on my ticket, I have to wait for that train, and it will mean loss of passenger rights on an e-ticket compared to a paper ticket. If that's true I'll only use paper tickets on the future for advance tickets.

I'm not 100% certain on this but hopefully someone more knowledgable will be able to answer.

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you have a counted place (Coach * seat**) on a service than taking that service is mandatory. There is no difference in this between CCST and eTickets.

 

[miklcct]

I have obtained a similar ticket to the one mentioned in question 2b which is a Guildford to Bournemouth advance single, with a reservation from Woking only on 2022-01-08.



The reserved train specified on the ticket is a London Waterloo to Weymouth service (SW9151), which is diverted through Guildford due to engineering work. However, the direct train is shown as an overtaken service because there is an unreservable train (SW1049), departing 5 minutes after the specified train from Guildford to Woking but arrives 5 minutes into Woking before the booked train departs due to the time required for the booked train to reverse at Woking, making it a legal connection.

In such case, will I be challenged if I actually board the booked train at Guildford and travel all the way to Bournemouth, and getting ticket checked between Guildford and Woking (as I'm taking a reservable service on an unreserved segment)? Such ticket may seem strange to inspectors because the whole journey is reservable but it is only part reserved. (The itinerary I've obtained is for a later train from Guildford to Woking)