Perplexing contactless capping – undercharged?

[Be3G]

Hi all,

I did some travelling yesterday in London, and looking at my journey history today I can't make sense of what I've been charged, to the effect that I've been charged less than expected. I generally consider myself pretty knowledgeable about how the Oyster/CPC system works, but this has got me stumped!

So the journeys yesterday were:

15:11 route 121           £1.50

15:35 route 313           £1.50

16:30 route 379           £1.40 bus daily cap reached

16:35 route 179           £0.00

17:03 route 275           £0.00

17:07 Woodford
17:44 Oxford Circus       £2.80

19:27 Oxford Circus
19:48 Tottenham Hale [LU]
19:49 Tottenham Hale [NR]
20:06 Enfield Lock        £2.20 all services daily cap reached

20:08 route 121           £0.00

The total for all of that was £9.40.

What I don't understand is how that all-services daily cap was calculated; unfortunately the TfL account website doesn't tell me which zones the cap covered, just that it wasn't a bus/tram one. I've tried going through all of the combinations of daily cap plus appropriate extension singles and none of my calculations arrive at £9.40. A 1–2 cap is £6.40 but then it'd be £1.50+£2.40 on extensions (total £10.30), 1–3 is £7.50 then £1.50+£1.90 on extensions (total £10.90), and 1–4 is £9.20 with £1.50 for an extension (total £10.70). All other caps are higher than the £9.40 I paid.

I'm certainly not complaining about this: it makes a change to be potentially undercharged rather than overcharged or tacitly accused of fare evasion by ‘the system’. Nonetheless I'd be interested to know if there's a quirk of that system here which I haven't yet understood, or if this is a random error on TfL's part.

 

[MikeWh]

Hi all,

I did some travelling yesterday in London, and looking at my journey history today I can't make sense of what I've been charged, to the effect that I've been charged less than expected. I generally consider myself pretty knowledgeable about how the Oyster/CPC system works, but this has got me stumped!

So the journeys yesterday were:

15:11 route 121           £1.50

15:35 route 313           £1.50

16:30 route 379           £1.40 bus daily cap reached

16:35 route 179           £0.00

17:03 route 275           £0.00

17:07 Woodford
17:44 Oxford Circus       £2.80

19:27 Oxford Circus
19:48 Tottenham Hale [LU]
19:49 Tottenham Hale [NR]
20:06 Enfield Lock        £2.20 all services daily cap reached

20:08 route 121           £0.00

The total for all of that was £9.40.

What I don't understand is how that all-services daily cap was calculated; unfortunately the TfL account website doesn't tell me which zones the cap covered, just that it wasn't a bus/tram one. I've tried going through all of the combinations of daily cap plus appropriate extension singles and none of my calculations arrive at £9.40. A 1–2 cap is £6.40 but then it'd be £1.50+£2.40 on extensions (total £10.30), 1–3 is £7.50 then £1.50+£1.90 on extensions (total £10.90), and 1–4 is £9.20 with £1.50 for an extension (total £10.70). All other caps are higher than the £9.40 I paid.

I'm certainly not complaining about this: it makes a change to be potentially undercharged rather than overcharged or tacitly accused of fare evasion by ‘the system’. Nonetheless I'd be interested to know if there's a quirk of that system here which I haven't yet understood, or if this is a random error on TfL's part.

It's a quirk or a random error certainly. Try working out the extensions using the TfL-LU scale rather than the TfL-LSt scale. There may be a secret technical reason for this anomaly, but it definitely exists. Not sure whether the DfT approve of it, or are even aware.

 

[Be3G]

Ah yes of course! Zones 1–2 with two £1.50 extensions. Good spot Mike, thanks. Interesting indeed.

 

[Be3G]

Interestingly, a relative of mine has today encountered another quirk with Oyster PAYG extension fares. She holds a 2–5 annual travelcard and made an off-peak journey from Gordon Hill to Marble Arch via Highbury and Oxford Circus today. I was expecting a £2.25 charge for a zone 1 though journey with railcard discount, but she has in fact only been charged £1.50 – the price for a discounted TfL-only extension.

Of course, that's arguably much more fair anyway, as the extension part of the journey was entirely on TfL rails. Nonetheless that's not how Oyster used to work, and taken in context with the posts above from a few weeks ago, does this mean that all extensions are now being charged on the standard TfL scale?

 

[MikeWh]

Interestingly, a relative of mine has today encountered another quirk with Oyster PAYG extension fares. She holds a 2–5 annual travelcard and made an off-peak journey from Gordon Hill to Marble Arch via Highbury and Oxford Circus today. I was expecting a £2.25 charge for a zone 1 though journey with railcard discount, but she has in fact only been charged £1.50 – the price for a discounted TfL-only extension.

Of course, that's arguably much more fair anyway, as the extension part of the journey was entirely on TfL rails. Nonetheless that's not how Oyster used to work, and taken in context with the posts above from a few weeks ago, does this mean that all extensions are now being charged on the standard TfL scale?

No, sadly.

Zone 1 extensions with a travelcard including zone 2 have always been charged at the TfL rate (unless it is morning peak and the touch in is at a NR charging station - then it's 10p more).

 

[Be3G]

Thanks Mike, I'd completely forgotten about the zone 2 travelcard exception.

Several times I've tried to refresh my memory of the extension charging rules using the new TfL website but can't find any documentation about them any more; however, this conversation has given me the impetus to seek them out using the Internet Archive's copy of the old TfL site, which for anyone interested can be found here.

 

[alibert]

(Hi people)

Here's the journeys I did yesterday, paying contactless. I can't work out how the cost of £10 was arrived at (although again it's cheaper than I expected). Anyone got any insight?

7/3/2016 £10.00 fares capped
Some journeys were cheaper or free today because you reached a daily cap.

Twickenham to Canary Wharf LU (E1) £6.60 07:05 - 07:56

Canary Wharf LU (E1)to Wimbledon £3.40 Fares capped 18:28 - 19:07

Bus Journey, Route 93 £0.00 Fares capped 19:10

 

[button_boxer]

(Hi people)

Here's the journeys I did yesterday, paying contactless. I can't work out how the cost of £10 was arrived at (although again it's cheaper than I expected). Anyone got any insight?

7/3/2016 £10.00 fares capped
Some journeys were cheaper or free today because you reached a daily cap.

Twickenham to Canary Wharf LU (E1) £6.60 07:05 - 07:56

Canary Wharf LU (E1)to Wimbledon £3.40 Fares capped 18:28 - 19:07

Bus Journey, Route 93 £0.00 Fares capped 19:10

Zone 1-3 cap (£7.60) plus a single zone 4-5 extension fare from Twickenham (£2.40).

 

[alibert]

So I got the bus for free because it started in Zone 3, so was included in the £7.60 ?

 

[maniacmartin]

Buses don't have zones. As far as I can recall, a bus journey can be counted as part of any zonal cap. (Don't quote me on this)

 

[MikeWh]

So I got the bus for free because it started in Zone 3, so was included in the £7.60 ?

Buses don't have zones. As far as I can recall, a bus journey can be counted as part of any zonal cap. (Don't quote me on this)

Buses don't have zones. If you have reached any rail cap then any TfL bus journey will be free, even one apparently outside the zones (eg Merstham to Redhill on the 405)