PKP EU06s in the UK

[Harbornite]

This thread might belong in the international thread but whatever.


I'm wondering about these: the PKP (Polish state railways) Class EU06

Anyone who isn't familiar with these might notice a resemblance to the BR Class 83, this is because they were both built by English Electric around the same time.

I'm wondering if anyone here has seen any pictures of these locomotives being built at Vulcan foundry or being moved across the UK for export to Poland.

Thanks in advance.

 

[class ep-09]

This thread might belong in the international thread but whatever.


I'm wondering about these: the PKP (Polish state railways) Class EU06

Anyone who isn't familiar with these might notice a resemblance to the BR Class 83, this is because they were both built by English Electric around the same time.

I'm wondering if anyone here has seen any pictures of these locomotives being built at Vulcan foundry or being moved across the UK for export to Poland.

Thanks in advance.

I think this is this same loco many years ago

 

[Harbornite]

Thanks for that! I can see that you're into the Polish scene as well, judging by your username.

 

[class ep-09]

Thanks for that! I can see that you're into the Polish scene as well, judging by your username.

That's right . Was born there , went to railway college and worked for railways from 1991 to 2001 . Used to drive class EU / EP 06 and 07 locos as a part of the trainind that was reqiured to be.... a Train Manager.
Now driving for GWR.

 

[Harbornite]

That's right . Was born there , went to railway college and worked for railways from 1991 to 2001 . Used to drive class EU / EP 06 and 07 locos as a part of the trainind that was reqiured to be.... a Train Manager.
Now driving for GWR.

Cool! I wouldn't mind going to Poland one day to see the EU44s and indigenous electric and diesel locos. I've only seen one Polish railway vehicle, that was a Berlin- Warszawa express coach at Berlin Rummelsburg depot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here you can see how similar the EP07 (if you're not familiar, it's a Polish built version of the EU06) looks to the class 83. It was good of PKP to repaint one of their 07s into Electric blue.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/347973508688810272/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/warren_wordsworth/2300467108

 

[DarloRich]

I assume the government of the time had to authorise a sale of British technology to a communist state? How did that happen?

 

[Harbornite]

I assume the government of the time had to authorise a sale of British technology to a communist state? How did that happen?

The railway magazine recently covered it in an article. The British and Poles had worked together in the 1930s but the war put rolling stock plans on hold. When these locomotives were ordered, the Polish actually paid with bacon supplies. It seems as though the Brits and Poles weren't too bothered about the politics of it all, and even the USSR didn't complain. I'll dig out that article later.


British deals with communist governments occasionally happened; When Brush won a contract for type 4 diesel locos for Cuba in 1964, they subcontracted the work to Clayton to avoid offending the US clients of Hawker Siddeley. Another strange occurance was when BR gave Electroputere of Romania the contract for 30 of the class 56s.

 

[DarloRich]

The railway magazine recently covered it in an article. The British and Poles had worked together in the 1930s but the war put rolling stock plans on hold. When these locomotives were ordered, the Polish actually paid with bacon supplies. It seems as though the Brits and Poles weren't too bothered about the politics of it all, and even the USSR didn't complain. I'll dig out that article later.


British deals with communist governments occasionally happened; When Brush won a contract for type 4 diesel locos for Cuba in 1964, they subcontracted the work to Clayton to avoid offending the US clients of Hawker Siddeley. Another strange occurance was when BR gave Electroputere of Romania the contract for 30 of the class 56s.

Cheers - Paying in bacon seems sensible!

I guess it is non secret technology

 

[HSTEd]

My father, who worked in South-Central Train Planning at the time, has mentioned a trainload of empty aerosol cans that went to Poland every week.

So the Iron Curtain was far from a solid wall.

 

[trac]

Here you can see how similar the EP07 (if you're not familiar, it's a Polish built version of the EU06) looks to the class 83. It was good of PKP to repaint one of their 07s into Electric blue.

Nice effort made to match the BR Electric BLue livery. Presumably EE did not deliver any in that livery?

 

[Harbornite]

Nice effort made to match the BR Electric BLue livery. Presumably EE did not deliver any in that livery?

They were delivered in two tone green which was retained by some members of the class. I don't think any of them received PKP cargo blue livery, they were all retired a few years ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Cheers - Paying in bacon seems sensible!

I guess it is non secret technology

Aye. Anyhow, I've got the article here which says that in 1933, electric locos were ordered from Met Vickers for the Warsaw Junction railway. Then in 1959, it was agreed that PKP would receive 20 EU06s, the first was shipped from Liverpool Docks in early 1962 and the last entered service in 1964. They have all been retired now but some are used for charters and the EU07 class was based off them(they are a Polish built version, basically) These were manufactured until 1992 and are one of the standard classes of Poland, and the ET22 freight locos feature the same traction motors as the EU07s. It's interesting to note that EE was building the lightning interceptor at the same time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My father, who worked in South-Central Train Planning at the time, has mentioned a trainload of empty aerosol cans that went to Poland every week.

So the Iron Curtain was far from a solid wall.

Cross-curtain trade was encouraged during the 70s, with the likes of Renault and Fiat getting involved in Romania and the USSR respectively.

 

[class ep-09]

Cool! I wouldn't mind going to Poland one day to see the EU44s and indigenous electric and diesel locos.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here you can see how similar the EP07 (if you're not familiar, it's a Polish built version of the EU06) looks to the class 83. It was good of PKP to repaint one of their 07s into Electric blue.


There it is a ET41 , which eesentially is 2 class eu/ep 07 joined together with back cabs choped off.
It is called ET41 as the "T" stands for "Towarowa" meaning cargo / freight .
For other letters in the class name E stands for Electric , U for universal ( freight and passenger traffic) , P stands for passenger.

http://www.dcc24.eu/sites/default/files/images/Kopia_ET41-144_CARGO.JPG

With diesel it was similar situation ( T cargo, U universal, P passenger) ,except that class name would begin with S "Spalinowa" meaning "diesel" - SU46 for example ( was my favourite one).

http://pu.i.wp.pl/k,NzAwNTQxMTEsNDg1NTkwODE=,f,Su46-048

I've only seen one Polish railway vehicle, that was a Berlin- Warszawa express coach at Berlin

Used to work these trains .

 

[43096]

Another strange occurance was when BR gave Electroputere of Romania the contract for 30 of the class 56s.

Not quite: the contract was with Brush, who then subcontracted to Electroputere. The locos all had Brush works numbers allocated. No doubt BR had to give permission (probably regretted afterwards!) and export licences etc applied for.

 

[Harbornite]

Not quite: the contract was with Brush, who then subcontracted to Electroputere. The locos all had Brush works numbers allocated. No doubt BR had to give permission (probably regretted afterwards!) and export licences etc applied for.

I should have phrased that better. Either way, my point still stands, namely that they were built (quite badly) in a Communist country.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There it is a ET41 , which eesentially is 2 class eu/ep 07 joined together with back cabs choped off.
It is called ET41 as the "T" stands for "Towarowa" meaning cargo / freight .
For other letters in the class name E stands for Electric , U for universal ( freight and passenger traffic) , P stands for passenger.

http://www.dcc24.eu/sites/default/files/images/Kopia_ET41-144_CARGO.JPG

With diesel it was similar situation ( T cargo, U universal, P passenger) ,except that class name would begin with S "Spalinowa" meaning "diesel" - SU46 for example ( was my favourite one).

http://pu.i.wp.pl/k,NzAwNTQxMTEsNDg1NTkwODE=,f,Su46-048

Aye I'm familiar with the Polish classification system, I like the ET41s as well. I use this site to look at the stock lists for each of the Polish classes.

IIRC, with steam, O represents mixed traffic, P is passenger and T is freight, with two numbers at the end representing the year. (e.g OL49)

Used to work these trains .??????

Cool, was this before or after EU44s were introduced?

 

[class ep-09]

I should have phrased that better. Either way, my point still stands, namely that they were built (quite badly) in a Communist country.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Aye I'm familiar with the Polish classification system, I like the ET41s as well. I use this site to look at the stock lists for each of the Polish classes.

IIRC, with steam, O represents mixed traffic, P is passenger and T is freight, with two numbers at the end representing the year. (e.g OL49)




Cool, was this before or after EU44s were introduced?

It was good few years before EU44s were even contemplated by PKP (1998-2001).
We used to be pulled from Warsaw to the German border ( Rzepin) by EP09's or less often by EP08, EU07 or even EP05. Then there was change of locks to diesel only to the first German station - Frankfurt Oder and from there train was pulled by German electrical loco.
It also was the time , when the now so called Berlin-Warsaw Expresses were called EC ( Euro City ) trains. As far as I remember they were called Berolina, Varsovia, Paderewski (running between Warsaw and Berlin and back) and Posnania ( only running from Poznan to Berlin and back).
BWE ( Berlin Warsaw Express) started in 2000 or 2001.

 

[Harbornite]

It was good few years before EU44s were even contemplated by PKP (1998-2001).
We used to be pulled from Warsaw to the German border ( Rzepin) by EP09's or less often by EP08, EU07 or even EP05. Then there was change of locks to diesel only to the first German station - Frankfurt Oder and from there train was pulled by German electrical loco.
It also was the time , when the now so called Berlin-Warsaw Expresses were called EC ( Euro City ) trains. As far as I remember they were called Berolina, Varsovia, Paderewski (running between Warsaw and Berlin and back) and Posnania ( only running from Poznan to Berlin and back).
BWE ( Berlin Warsaw Express) started in 2000 or 2001.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that.Which locomotives did they use on the German side?

 

[Chris125]

Here you can see how similar the EP07 (if you're not familiar, it's a Polish built version of the EU06) looks to the class 83. It was good of PKP to repaint one of their 07s into Electric blue.

Alas it's back in corporate PKP livery, but it's kept the cast emblem


PKP EP07 1051, Warszawa Centralna, 03-08-15 by afc45014, on Flickr

 

[Harbornite]

Alas it's back in corporate PKP livery, but it's kept the cast emblem


PKP EP07 1051, Warszawa Centralna, 03-08-15 by afc45014, on Flickr

Thanks for sharing that, at least the crest is still there as you say!

 

[Haywain]

Not quite: the contract was with Brush, who then subcontracted to Electroputere. The locos all had Brush works numbers allocated. No doubt BR had to give permission (probably regretted afterwards!) and export licences etc applied for.

I believe that was part of a trade deal that also involved the UK supplying and transferring production of BAC-111 aircraft to Romania. It was certainly at about the same time so it is quite possible that the class 56s served as a form of payment.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I thought the reason for the first batch of 56s was simply that there was insufficient capacity in the works over here in the UK at the time they needed to get them built?