Plans for a Nottingham to Grimsby Town service?

[Jorge Da Silva]

I was reading the ITT for the East Midlands Franchise again when I noticed on page 4 for the Nottingham to Lincoln service requirement it says that 14 services per day should start at Grimsby Town instead of Lincoln and 13 services should end at Grimsby Town instead of Lincoln. This is shown from December 2021 on a Monday to Friday.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...e/714308/attachment-a-tsr2-tables-weekday.pdf (TIMETABLE FROM 2021)

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ions-for-train-service-requirement1-and-2.pdf

I know currently there is three trains per day on a Sunday between Cleethorpes and Nottingham in the Summer Months

 

[duffield]

If I remember correctly this will be going back to how it was years ago (maybe 20ish?) when most Nottingham to Lincoln trains went on to Grimsby?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

If I remember correctly this will be going back to how it was years ago (maybe 20ish?) when most Nottingham to Lincoln trains went on to Grimsby?

I was quiet shocked when I read it but welcomed news!

 

[class26]

I was quiet shocked when I read it but welcomed news!

and hopefully will mean the Lincoln - Grimsby`s will be 2 car 156`s rather than dogboxes.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

and hopefully will mean the Lincoln - Grimsby`s will be 2 car 156`s rather than dogboxes.

Hopefully! I would think in ideal world 3 cars!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Doesn’t the Nottingham service currently go to Leicester? If so would
It be that Service which runs to Grimsby Town Or will they extend the Matlock service?

It is also important to note that it says ‘stop at Grimsby Town’ not start at Grimsby Town meaning it could end up starting at Cleethorpes.

 

[43074]

Doesn’t the Nottingham service currently go to Leicester? If so would
It be that Service which runs to Grimsby Town Or will they extend the Matlock service?

It is also important to note that it says ‘stop at Grimsby Town’ not start at Grimsby Town meaning it could end up starting at Cleethorpes.

To be honest what will determine it is paths over the flat crossing at Newark and how those paths match with services coming into Nottingham from the West. What is known is that the new franchise operator can only use one path per hour over the Newark flat crossing and those which do run over it have to be timetabled to pass on the crossing to minimise the number of ECML paths used. There's no reason why they have to run across Nottingham, it's more efficient with the current timetable but that may change depending on what else is proposed in the new franchise, only the bidders know exactly what is proposed.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

To be honest what will determine it is paths over the flat crossing at Newark and how those paths match with services coming into Nottingham from the West. What is known is that the new franchise operator can only use one path per hour over the Newark flat crossing and those which do run over it have to be timetabled to pass on the crossing to minimise the number of ECML paths used. There's no reason why they have to run across Nottingham, it's more efficient with the current timetable but that may change depending on what else is proposed in the new franchise, only the bidders know exactly what is proposed.

It’s probably likely that the Leicester to Lincoln Service will be extended to Grimsby Town (and possibly Cleethorpes) then.

 

[VT 390]

The issue with having all the Grimsby Town to Lincoln services extend to Nottingham is that it would remove the through service to Newark North Gate and connections to Kings Cross. I know currently the connections are not great but I would much rather see more Newark North Gate trains from Grimsby, perhaps the trains could alternate between North Gate and Nottingham?

 

[43074]

It’s probably likely that the Leicester to Lincoln Service will be extended to Grimsby Town (and possibly Cleethorpes) then.

That's not what I said, the current paths between Nottingham and Lincoln are not compliant in the new franchise, both the Midland and East Coast main lines have major timetable recasts coming up, it will depend entirely on how the Nottingham to Lincoln service fits with the rest of the timetable. There's no reason for them to run beyond Nottingham at all.

The issue with having all the Grimsby Town to Lincoln services extend to Nottingham is that it would remove the through service to Newark North Gate and connections to Kings Cross. I know currently the connections are not great but I would much rather see more Newark North Gate trains from Grimsby, perhaps the trains could alternate between North Gate and Nottingham?

It's just as fast and there are more frequent connections from TPE at Doncaster. Plus Lincoln is getting direct London services anyway and alternating between Northgate and Nottingham would be a nightmare to timetable.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

The issue with having all the Grimsby Town to Lincoln services extend to Nottingham is that it would remove the through service to Newark North Gate and connections to Kings Cross. I know currently the connections are not great but I would much rather see more Newark North Gate trains from Grimsby, perhaps the trains could alternate between North Gate and Nottingham?

The ITT states a 2-hourly service requirement between Lincoln Central and Newark Northgate to be timed between the planned LNER services to London, an hourly service is required between Lincoln and Grimsby and hourly services (13-14 tpd) between Nottingham and Grimsby Town. It looks like the Lincoln service will no longer run to Newark Northgate or at least not required to run as through service. It is important to note that Barton services are still the same as currently under the new EMT franchise. And alternate trains would be difficult to achieve

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

That's not what I said, the current paths between Nottingham and Lincoln are not compliant in the new franchise, both the Midland and East Coast main lines have major timetable recasts coming up, it will depend entirely on how the Nottingham to Lincoln service fits with the rest of the timetable. There's no reason for them to run beyond Nottingham at all.



It's just as fast and there are more frequent connections from TPE at Doncaster. Plus Lincoln is getting direct London services anyway and alternating between Northgate and Nottingham would be a nightmare to timetable.

Sorry miss interpreted your response. I wouldn’t mind if the service only runs to Nottingham I would be happy we do not lose any services what so ever and Newark would still get a service to Grimsby Town via Castle station should Lincoln services no longer run to Northgate.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Could the service run to Cleethorpes?

 

[Lincoln]

Could the service run to Cleethorpes?

Without an extended turnaround time at Cleethorpes I would doubt it; as the timings (taking into account the newly imposed restraints on the service as detailed in the ITT, such as parallel moves over Newark Flat Crossing etc) will not allow anything except a minimum turnaround at Grimsby Town.

But perhaps one or all of the bidders have decided that it would be good to serve the place and will do so and will stomach the cost of the extra unit in order to do so.

Until the winner is announced and the DfT releases one of their shiny maps detailing what the actual service improvements are, we will all firmly be remaining in the dark.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Without an extended turnaround time at Cleethorpes I would doubt it; as the timings (taking into account the newly imposed restraints on the service as detailed in the ITT, such as parallel moves over Newark Flat Crossing etc) will not allow anything except a minimum turnaround at Grimsby Town.

But perhaps one or all of the bidders have decided that it would be good to serve the place and will do so and will stomach the cost of the extra unit in order to do so.

Until the winner is announced and the DfT releases one of their shiny maps detailing what the actual service improvements are, we will all firmly be remaining in the dark.

That is I think due to be announced in April 2019.