Potential trainload freight flows between the UK and Europe

[cce]

mods note - split from this thread

GBRf Class 99 - 30 locomotives now ordered

GBRf likely ordering 30 x 99s (not 20, it’s the wrong way round, eg 30 99s and 20 options) which are going to be sufficiently powerful to do intermodal trains on the Felixstowe as well as probably being for TPE Mk5s and Night Riviera...

www.railforums.co.uk

I think us Brits tend not to properly grasp just how much still moves around continental Europe by river.

 

[hwl]

I think us Brits tend not to properly grasp just how much still moves around continental Europe by river.

Exactly - we are talking about the equivalent of sailing a small containership 400miles upriver from Felixstowe / Southampton / London Gateway! Normal on the continent, alien concept here (the equivalent is using a coaster to Grangemouth via the North Sea).

The Elbe and transportation on it is part of the reason Czechia is much more industrialised than Slovakia (and one of our former prime minsters ended up waving a bit of paper at Croydon Airport 87 years ago)

 

[furnessvale]

I think us Brits tend not to properly grasp just how much still moves around continental Europe by river.

Last time I looked, the percentage by barge in Europe fairly matched our use of domestic coastal shipping. We may not have big rivers, but we do have a rather large waterway all around us.

 

[BRX]

Is it really easier to load them on and off a ship than just to bring them through the tunnel?

 

[cj_1985]

Is it really easier to load them on and off a ship than just to bring them through the tunnel?

if I were to make an uneducated guess... the french may be impediments to them reaching the tunnel. There were obviously reasons why class/euro 66 locos were moved into the UK via Immingham rather than through the tunnel, beyond just cost....
They have been known to be less than accommodating

 

[contrex]

if I were to make an uneducated guess... the french may be impediments to them reaching the tunnel. There were obviously reasons why class/euro 66 locos were moved into the UK via Immingham rather than through the tunnel, beyond just cost....
They have been known to be less than accommodating

"They" let Siemens bring the 2024 tube stock through, didn't they? What do you mean by 'the french' [sic]? The government? SNCF? RFF? Customs? Did it even happen?

 

[cj_1985]

"They" let Siemens bring the 2024 tube stock through, didn't they? What do you mean by 'the french' [sic]? The government? SNCF? RFF? Customs? Did it even happen?

SNCF, or rather the infrastructure owner/operator have been less than accepting with movements of certain locos and stock over French track over the years...

 

[contrex]

SNCF, or rather the infrastructure owner/operator have been less than accepting with movements of certain locos and stock over French track over the years...

And you are sure they are doing it to be awkward? With proof?

 

[cj_1985]

And you are sure they are doing it to be awkward? With proof?

Well, when it's been locomotives that have been allowed to move in one direction on their network, then they refuse rights for them to move back across in the opposite direction... yeah, im pretty sure.

Proof? No. However more than 25 years experience dealing with various French departments doing the exact same sh*t

 

[Pete_uk]

I remember reading a quote that went something like 'The only problem with the Channel Tunnel is that it comes up in France'.

I think that was reference to problems with getting various stock accepted to run on the countries rails.

 

[contrex]

Well, when it's been locomotives that have been allowed to move in one direction on their network, then they refuse rights for them to move back across in the opposite direction... yeah, im pretty sure.

Proof? No. However more than 25 years experience dealing with various French departments doing the exact same sh*t

Oh I see. Of course you're not BSing. Oh no. The problem I have with all that is that I have been travelling to France and dealing with French people, man and boy, for 60 years, and I have had nothing but excellent co-operation and helpfulness. Not so with Brits always.

What I'd really like to see happen in my home town, Bristol, is for Siemens/Matra to design and install a VAL metro like in Toulouse.

 

[hwl]

Oh I see. Of course you're not BSing. Oh no. The problem I have with all that is that I have been travelling to France and dealing with French people, man and boy, for 60 years, and I have had nothing but excellent co-operation and helpfulness. Not so with Brits always.

What I'd really like to see happen in my home town, Bristol, is for Siemens/Matra to design and install a VAL metro like in Toulouse.

As SW Rover pointed out in post 539 ( https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gbrf-class-99-30-locomotives-now-ordered.228787/post-7328602 ) Bob commented under his own youtube video when some one asked him the question "Unfortunately this could not be arranged with the French Authorities in the timescale we had and costs. It remains an option if viable. 99003 onwards comes via Portbury Roll on Roll off, they came Avonmouth as Lift on Lift off via Bremen not Valencia. There is always method to what sees either madness or sensible.".

Given who Bob is and what his day job is you can safely say it is true...
If you don't know what Bob's day job is you should probably check on linked in.

 

[contrex]

"Unfortunately this could not be arranged with the French Authorities in the timescale we had and costs.".

Given who Bob is and what his day job is you can safely say it is true...
If you don't know what Bob's day job is you should probably check on linked in.

Sorry, I thought it was gratuitous French-bashing. But 'not possible in the timescale and costs available' doesn't sound like deliberate obstruction.

 

[BRX]

Sorry, I thought it was gratuitous French-bashing. But 'not possible in the timescale and costs available' doesn't sound like deliberate obstruction.

I don't think it's "french-bashing". The criticisms are levelled at those who control the French railway infrastructure and what runs on it.
Have a look at the dismal state of rail freight in France and compare it to, say, Germany.

 

[ac6000cw]

If you don't know what Bob's day job is you should probably check on linked in.

You don't even need to do that - this is from Bob's YouTube channel main page/masthead:

Railway Enthusiast, Work for GB Railfreight as Engineering Strategy Director. Have been involved in repowering, 47 to 57, 73/1 to 73/9, HST Paxman to MTU and Class 56 to 69. Locomotive Engineer. Now my latest locomotive is the GBRf /Stadler Class 99 Bimode Diesel 1.8Mw and 6.2Mw 25KV OHL. A great fan of SRT Thai Railways, Alstom, GEA and GEK locomotives. Have spent a lot of time in Thailand travelling cycling and enjoying the trains, locomotives and wonderful people. Was Chairman of DEPG, help restore, rebuild and preserve D1010 Western Campaigner at Didcot and on West Somerset Railway,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2025 ==

But 'not possible in the timescale and costs available' doesn't sound like deliberate obstruction.

If you don't want the business, you can still be very polite and charming but quote lead times and prices that mean no sane customer would buy the product when there's an alternative...

 

[hwl]

You don't even need to do that - this is from Bob's YouTube channel main page/masthead:

There are quite few key bits missing from the you tube page mast head.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2025 ==


If you don't want the business, you can still be very polite and charming but quote lead times and prices that mean no sane customer would buy the product when there's an alternative...

P+T have had similar issues with low volume occasional deliveries of tampers and similar track equipment to the UK as well. Loading at Bremen (and Ro-Ro to Hull in their case) is tried and tested because of the "French" issues. The GBRf 66 imports copied the P+T logistics which avoided the need to remove the aircon units added to some of the cabs.

 

[contrex]

You don't even need to do that - this is from Bob's YouTube channel main page/masthead:



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jun 2025 ==


If you don't want the business, you can still be very polite and charming but quote lead times and prices that mean no sane customer would buy the product when there's an alternative...

...and of course no British business ever does that?