Work on Okehampton Line: progress updates

[21C101]

Okehampton Parkway is a much longer term project and certainly would not be part of any 2021 reopening. The situation was simplified with the Dartmoor Rly going into administration - it was planned at one stage to have an interchange there and the Exeter service not serving the original Okehampton station. Sampford Courtenay station is nowhere near said village (or anywhere else for that matter) and in my view not worth reopening if it causes timing problems.

In a way that is a shame because it will cost about three times as much to build it next to a working line as next to an out of use one.

But with an "oven ready" station sitting there already equipped with inter city standard facilities, a big car park, and plenty of space for interchange with onward buses to Bude etc., it would be foolish to delay reopening for two years while that got built.

 

[Ash Bridge]

It will be interesting to see the minimum journey time achievable between Okehampton & Exeter St Davids using class 158/159 units if the Coleford - Okehampton section is having long stretches renewed with CWR. Back in its through route days up until the late 1960s class 42 locomotives could manage Okehampton to St Davids in 27mins with load 10 non-stop, surely a 159 with one call at Crediton could at least equal this performance?

 

[Bald Rick]

In a way that is a shame because it will cost about three times as much to build it next to a working line as next to an out of use one.

It wouldn’t. A little more, yes, but certainly not three times as much. The majority of new stations can be built in a ‘high street environment’, it is only the platforms - and only those parts of platforms close to the track - where you need special arrangements if the line is open.

 

[Cowley]

It will be interesting to see the minimum journey time achievable between Okehampton & Exeter St Davids using class 158/159 units if the Coleford - Okehampton section is having long stretches renewed with CWR. Back in its through route days up until the late 1960s class 42 locomotives could manage Okehampton to St Davids in 27mins with load 10 non-stop, surely a 159 with one call at Crediton could at least equal this performance?

The arrangement with the crossing and box at Crediton seems to be quite time consuming (well it does when you’re late for work and the gates come down as you get there anyway ), I suppose that wouldn’t have taken any time when it was double line right through.

 

[Ash Bridge]

The arrangement with the crossing and box at Crediton seems to be quite time consuming (well it does when you’re late for work and the gates come down as you get there anyway ), I suppose that wouldn’t have taken any time when it was double line right through.

That's a very good point I hadn't considered Mr C!

 

[MarkyT]

The arrangement with the crossing and box at Crediton seems to be quite time consuming (well it does when you’re late for work and the gates come down as you get there anyway ), I suppose that wouldn’t have taken any time when it was double line right through.

Handing over the train staff/token for either branch and negotiating the 15 MPH crossovers will always be time-consuming. Would have been Absolute Block in the old double track days. Here are the relevant Sectional Appendix pages.

 

[Cowley]

Handing over the train staff/token for either branch and negotiating the 15 MPH crossovers will always be time-consuming. Would have been Absolute Block in the old double track days. Here are the relevant Sectional Appendix pages.
View attachment 86600View attachment 86601View attachment 86602View attachment 86603View attachment 86604

That’s great, thanks for that.
A question for you @MarkyT (or anyone that might know), on the section from Coleford Junction to Okehampton just past Bow station is a disused multiple aspect signal:



I didn’t realise that there were any up there. What would have controlled it, and are there any more on the line?

 

[MarkyT]

A question for you @MarkyT (or anyone that might know), on the section from Coleford Junction to Okehampton just past Bow station is a disused multiple aspect signal:

View attachment 86607

I didn’t realise that there were any up there. What would have controlled it, and are there any more on the line?

Signal 'ON12' near Bow is a prop erected for a safety film that was never removed.

 

[Cowley]

I read somewhere it's never been a proper operational signal, but can't recall its true purpose. I'll investigate...

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[Gloster]

Where is it? Is it for Up or Down trains. What is on the identification plate?

EDIT: If the letters are OK or similar and it is on the Up road, could it have been an Intermediate Block Signal controlled from Okehampton?

 

[Cowley]

Signal 'ON12' near Bow is a prop erected for a safety film that was never removed.

Well I never. Good bit of digging!
Any idea how long it’s been there?

 

[Gloster]

Well, well, now that is an original one. Though it is not to the credit of whoever was in charge of the work that they left such a piece of kit in place, even if it has an X over the head.

 

[21C101]

That's a very good point I hadn't considered Mr C!

A future upgrade to provide a proper junction at Coleford with the two single lines operated as a double with no more need for 15mph turnouts or tokens will be good for the Barnstaple line too.

But that is for the future.

 

[Cowley]

Well, well, now that is an original one. Though it is not to the credit of whoever was in charge of the work that they left such a piece of kit in place, even if it has an X over the head.

I’m reliably informed that the phone doesn’t work so that’s something.
Perhaps it’s a portal into 1985..?

 

[Class 170101]

The primary reason for extending the Waterloo trains to Okehampton is because it is the only way that Okehampton trains can run to Exeter Central using the existing infrastructure.

It also stops Platform 1 at St Davids being clogged up by terminating trains to and from Waterloo which is a major operational headache now that the half hourly Exmouth to Paigntons all reverse there and a further hourly train runs to Barnstaple. (there had already been talk of extending Waterloo trains to Crediton a while back for precisely that reason).

That said, there is nothing stopping GWR extending a morning up and evening down Paddington to Exeter semifast to give a fast peak hour Journey from Oke to Padd as Exeter - Oke will be their patch.

Operationally you could probably make a case for 2x5 cars between Exeter St Davids and London with portion working from there. However would a Class 80x be too heavy for this route?

 

[Cowley]

A future upgrade to provide a proper junction at Coleford with the two single lines operated as a double with no more need for 15mph turnouts or tokens will be good for the Barnstaple line too.

But that is for the future.

I think a big problem with the signalling in the area is with the limitations of what can be done with the Exeter Panel (at least 35 years old now), obviously Crediton being at the limit on those routes, would there ever be a case for putting a new mini box in for north of Crediton? Or is that just too prohibitively expensive and complicated?

 

[Gloster]

I think a big problem with the signalling in the area is with the limitations of what can be done with the Exeter Panel (at least 35 years old now), obviously Crediton being at the limit on those routes, would there ever be a case for putting a new mini box in for north of Crediton? Or is that just too prohibitively expensive and complicated?

It would probably be possible to alter or replace the panel at Crediton so as to incorporate double-track as far as Coleford Junction, but then you would have the problem of where the driver collects the token to Eggesford or Okehampton. This could be solved by further track circuiting, but this costs. And the box at Crediton is 145 years old.

 

[swt_passenger]

Operationally you could probably make a case for 2x5 cars between Exeter St Davids and London with portion working from there. However would a Class 80x be too heavy for this route?

Complete overkill for a route that’s mainly 90 mph or less. But probably getting off topic..

 

[21C101]

Complete overkill for a route that’s mainly 90 mph or less. But probably getting off topic..

I think he meant a pair running from eg Paignton/Okehampton to Exeter then running together to Paddington.

Nothing stopping the Okehampton service being mainly extended Waterloos with a morning and evening peak journey with a 5 car 8**'s to and from Paddington.

The primary purpose of running the Waterloo's to Okehampton is to link Oke to Exeter Central, not London, and stop terminating and starting trains from/to Waterloo clogging up Platform 3 at St Davids.

If the Oke line can take stone trains it can take 800s.

 

[Class 170101]

I think he meant a pair running from eg Paignton/Okehampton to Exeter then running together to Paddington.

Nothing stopping the Okehampton service being mainly extended Waterloos with a morning and evening peak journey with a 5 car 8**'s; the primary purpose of running the Waterloo's to Okehampton is to link Oke to Exeter Central not London.

I was looking at 1A72 or 1A74 in the morning and 1C89 and 1C91 in the evening.

 

[30907]

It will be interesting to see the minimum journey time achievable between Okehampton & Exeter St Davids using class 158/159 units if the Coleford - Okehampton section is having long stretches renewed with CWR. Back in its through route days up until the late 1960s class 42 locomotives could manage Okehampton to St Davids in 27mins with load 10 non-stop, surely a 159 with one call at Crediton could at least equal this performance?

Steam scheduled times were 28min non-stop from Okehampton to Cowley Bridge; there were sections that were passed for 85mph. Omitting Crediton wouldn't be justified these days even if there were no speed restrictions.

Okehampton to Crediton with one stop was 25min, but 30min uphill, so with a reasonable uplift of speed the round trip from Crediton in the hour should be comfortable, even allowing for a slow approach to Crediton.

 

[northernbelle]

Steam scheduled times were 28min non-stop from Okehampton to Cowley Bridge; there were sections that were passed for 85mph. Omitting Crediton wouldn't be justified these days even if there were no speed restrictions.

Okehampton to Crediton with one stop was 25min, but 30min uphill, so with a reasonable uplift of speed the round trip from Crediton in the hour should be comfortable, even allowing for a slow approach to Crediton.

That's a reasonable assumption - the regular services will be scheduled to take just under the hour between Crediton, Okehampton and return.

It's also a reasonable assumption that Exeter Central can be served from Okehampton within the constraints of the broadly current timetable - without the need to extend any SWR services.

 

[21C101]

It's also a reasonable assumption that Exeter Central can be served from Okehampton within the constraints of the broadly current timetable - without the need to extend any SWR services.

In your opinion. As I and others have demonstrated upthread and on other recent threads on the subject, it is far from a universally held opinion.

 

[northernbelle]

In your opinion. As I and others have demonstrated upthread and on other recent threads on the subject, it is far from a universally held opinion.

No, it's not just my opinion. Time will be the judge.

 

[Bald Rick]

Nothing stopping the Okehampton service being mainly extended Waterloos with a morning and evening peak journey with a 5 car 8**'s to and from Paddington

Apart from the rolling stock.

 

[MarkyT]

Well, well, now that is an original one. Though it is not to the credit of whoever was in charge of the work that they left such a piece of kit in place, even if it has an X over the head.

It was allegedly for one of the RSSB RED safety briefing series, which have been made for years and are ongoing, so perhaps they deliberately left the signal in place on what was at the time a practically unused or very rarely used line in anticipation of using it again for a future episode.

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www.rssb.co.uk

The line has also been used for adhesion training of GWR drivers, and maybe that was another use for this fake signal. It apparently featured in one of the C5 documentaries. See this post:

Okehampton and Sampford Courtenay

That’s good to hear, thanks for info. There was talk pre-virus from politicians of exploring the reopening of closed lines. If they want an easy win to deliver on that promise, then surely this line is it. I’m guessing it’s going at a knock-down rate too.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[swissrailpassion]

I think the first task will be to raise the linespeed and fettle the track for 50mph plus.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The primary purpose of running the Waterloo's to Okehampton is to link Oke to Exeter Central, not London, and stop terminating and starting trains from/to Waterloo clogging up Platform 3 at St Davids.

Sounds very expensive taking a 6 car 159 all the way to Okehampton. Any splitting and joining at Exeter to trim the Okehampton portion down to 3 cars is likely to clog up the platforms even further.

 

[21C101]

It wouldn’t. A little more, yes, but certainly not three times as much. The majority of new stations can be built in a ‘high street environment’, it is only the platforms - and only those parts of platforms close to the track - where you need special arrangements if the line is open.

It would when said out of use railway is owned by a third party who can get their own contractors to build it without having to pay for all NRs overheads.

I think the first task will be to raise the linespeed and fettle the track for 50mph plus.

See posts at beginning of the thread regarding trainloads of CWR and piles of sleepers being delivered.

Sounds very expensive taking a 6 car 159 all the way to Okehampton. Any splitting and joining at Exeter to trim the Okehampton portion down to 3 cars is likely to clog up the platforms even further.

That's a fair point. I don't know about expensive, but you would only want to take three cars down there for stock utilisation reasons.

They may have something up their sleeve like droppping the second three cars at Yeovil (which they want to do anyway to enable pretty well everything to run as six car to Yeovil rather than many of the trains three car west of Salisbury - regardless of Okehampton).

They need permissive working at YVJ to join trains there but I gather that is primarily a paperwork rather than capital matter.

 

[pompeyfan]

You’re certainly persistent on trying to ensure it’s an SWR service to okehampton even though others have tried to explain why GWR makes more sense.

I’m pretty certain Yeovil junction is already permissive working, there is several detachments and attachments taking place under Covid timetable.

could you also clarify something too, earlier you said the unit would be able to do the round trip within the hour but you also stated on a previous page that the unit would have 40 minutes turnaround at Okehampton. Surely either the unit has a decent turn around and there’s another 6 cars out in the 1L circuit or it has a tight turnaround and potentially not only smashes the Barnstable single line, but the other 4 sections of single line.

considering SWR are currently struggling as it is with diesel availability, good luck finding an extra 6 car by May