Qualifications

[Steam Man]

What academic qualifications do you need to work on the railway, I unfortunately left school with no GCSEs.
What I have some functional skills qualifications English and Maths, a computer basics qualification an internet basics qualification, and I passed my car driving test 2 years ago would that be enough.

 

[Stigy]

You don’t need any formal qualifications for most roles, although some companies ask for GCSEs (A to C grade) if they’re offering an apprenticeship.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Train driving and conductors are widely recognised as careers that don't require any sort of academic background.

Certainly a lot of other jobs in the rail industry require certain types of qualifications. For example the higher paid office jobs require certain business qualifications but I would suggest the key is to apply as a customer service assistant and perhaps do online courses in your spare time to build up your CV and get the experience to aim higher for future progresssion.

The problem everyone on this forum will agree with is that railway jobs are in high demand and a trainee driver job will attract applications in treble figures. Again it does matter what you've done since you left school - but you do need to sell yourself 110% to any of the TOCs.

I would suggest just throwing your hat in the ring and applying. I've had a few knock backs in the last few months and it's a case of just keep plugging away with the recruitment system.

Regards

C J

 

[C J Snarzell]

Apologises - spelling error! It should read as it DOES NOT matter what you've done since leaving school.

 

[Ducatist4]

Bear in mind though that in todays hyper competitive job market if two people have equal skill sets and do as well in the tests etc then the one with more qualifications is likely to get the nod.

 

[JaMa9]

I don't think you need any for most roles. My partner doesn't have a single qualification and still got job offers for Guard and Revenue roles from a few TOCs.

 

[ChrisRS]

It will state on the job advert when you apply whether you need qualifications or not.

 

[C J Snarzell]

As an after thought - life experience is just as valuable as any qualifications. I personally left school at 16 with hardly any GCSE results but I still managed to get into the police at 23. Over 15 years I probably dealt with stuff most people never cone across in a life time! Just try and evidence any life skills and put them to good use in your application. Best of luck.

C J

 

[Gemz91]

I didn't even have a driving licence when I qualified as a train driver.

 

[Red1980]

Depends on the role you will be applying for. although selling yourself is the hardest part in getting a job on the railway ( as there's hundreds possibly thousands of others doing the same thing) It Is worth remembering that there Is actually a reason they're asking you to sell yourself......It's not just to look good on an application form or through a recruitment campaign.....It's to actually see If you have some of the skills required to be able to carry out the roles successfully and safely.

for example...yes there are jobs out there requiring no formal qualifications such as driving and guards etc....but it's worth remembering the reason they do ask for a decent level of maths and English Is because even In operational roles some of those things (although basic) will be required. There Is lots of technology nowadays which will aid people who aren't so strong at maths etc but that Is generally just an aid and isn't seen as something to be relied upon to get you through your day.

We often see on these boards people bragging about their qualifications when they have degrees etc and how they should walk into a job on the railway with them......and I'm the first to reply that qualifications mean you excel in a classroom environment but it's common sense that stops you from killing someone.......however I would recommend getting something In your case just simply because of the numbers you're up against these days.....If you can't get the qualifications through an online course or something do like some others have said and get the experience to make up for It somehow. Yes this may mean you have to start In a grade that Isn't your first choice maybe but unfortunately those are the cards you have been dealt.

Don't think though that starting In a grade that you may see as beneath you Is going to hinder you.....as good as grades are you can't buy experience and having to work your way to where you want to be will put you in sight of the people who may be giving you the job that you are hoping for, And think how satisfying It will be knowing you've worked your way up and understand the Industry from the perspective of other grades. the good thing about the railway Is there Is always someone somewhere willing to give the right person a shot and once you've proven yourself you will easily be on par or even ahead of the guys/gals with grades coming out of their ears.

I left school with grades I would say are average at best and yes It did make getting my first job on the railway harder I won't lie.....but It didn't make It Impossible.....prove to them that you've got lots of other qualities within you and you'll be well on your way mate.

best of luck.

Red.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I'm potentially going to offend at least someone on here but I feel I need to say this.

I've found over the years that the best people in most work places are the ones with a limited academic background.

I was in the police for fifteen years of my life and towards the end of my time I saw graduates coming into the job at Inspector rank. These people had various qualifications for this and that, but they were completely useless and no one had any respect for them. One young lady who had been a data analysis came in straight as Inspector and never spoke to any of her staff - she used to sit in her office all day and just send e-mails to every one when she could have done it face to face.

My own sergeant had been in the service for over twenty five years and was one of the best supervisors I ever had. He had joined the service at 18 and left school with no qualifications! He was desperate to get promoted to Inspector but failed his interview board twice. However, people with appalling management skills were getting promoted into the higher ranks and this was down to a combination of things like degrees and business qualifications and sometimes a bit of favouritism.

Again on another note, my friends son is now 22. He left school with top GCSE results and then went on to do A levels. The lad is a complete bum though - you cannot have a proper conversation with him and he's got a similar personality to Harry Enfields Kevin & Perry characters. My friend is pulling is hair out because his son has no people skills and he thinks the world owes him a living. My friend has been trying to get him to apply for an apprenticeship but this lad is turning his nose up at anything that pays less than 40k a year. His attitude stinks!

I'm one these people who struggle with exams and interviews but can put my mind to any job and be great at what I do. There are other people out there who seem to waltz through exams and higher education courses like a breeze but cannot actually put their knowledge into practice.

Don't be put off by the whole qualification thing as you have probably got more life skills than a lot of other applicants.

 

[Bromley boy]

I've found over the years that the best people in most work places are the ones with a limited academic background.

Personally I have found exactly the opposite.

The railway workforce has changed over the years. Particularly in the driver grade, the Ts and Cs and salaries offered are good enough to attract people from a wide range of backgrounds and education levels. That is a good thing in my view.

There is still a tendency in some quarters on the railway for education to be looked down upon, as if those who are well educated must therefore lack “life skills” or “common sense”. That is not the case! Looking down on people because of their education is just as misguided as looking down on those who lack formal education, but make up for it in other ways.

The best approach is to judge people as individuals rather than focusing on their academic background. If my experience is anything to go by, the OP should find the railway recruitment process unbiased in this respect.

 

[JaMa9]

I would also tend to agree on the limited academic background. I mentioned above my partner has no qualifications as he came here as political refugee with nothing - his life and work experience is far more valuable than my Masters degree and it's evident as he has had many job offers in rail industry and elsewhere, whereas for me it's more of a struggle to find work anywhere unless directly linked to my degrees. Your work experience and life skills are far more important than qualifications unless you want to be a doctor or something. I have way more qualifications than my partner yet my maths is dreadful and he is great with maths despite not having a math GCSE. The assessments each TOC do should be enough to judge peoples abilities for the role. I absolutely agree that people should be judged as individuals.

 

[bramling]

I'm potentially going to offend at least someone on here but I feel I need to say this.

I've found over the years that the best people in most work places are the ones with a limited academic background.

I was in the police for fifteen years of my life and towards the end of my time I saw graduates coming into the job at Inspector rank. These people had various qualifications for this and that, but they were completely useless and no one had any respect for them. One young lady who had been a data analysis came in straight as Inspector and never spoke to any of her staff - she used to sit in her office all day and just send e-mails to every one when she could have done it face to face.

My own sergeant had been in the service for over twenty five years and was one of the best supervisors I ever had. He had joined the service at 18 and left school with no qualifications! He was desperate to get promoted to Inspector but failed his interview board twice. However, people with appalling management skills were getting promoted into the higher ranks and this was down to a combination of things like degrees and business qualifications and sometimes a bit of favouritism.

Again on another note, my friends son is now 22. He left school with top GCSE results and then went on to do A levels. The lad is a complete bum though - you cannot have a proper conversation with him and he's got a similar personality to Harry Enfields Kevin & Perry characters. My friend is pulling is hair out because his son has no people skills and he thinks the world owes him a living. My friend has been trying to get him to apply for an apprenticeship but this lad is turning his nose up at anything that pays less than 40k a year. His attitude stinks!

I'm one these people who struggle with exams and interviews but can put my mind to any job and be great at what I do. There are other people out there who seem to waltz through exams and higher education courses like a breeze but cannot actually put their knowledge into practice.

Don't be put off by the whole qualification thing as you have probably got more life skills than a lot of other applicants.

Don’t really agree with this.

Where I am there’s people with what might be described as having a “limited educational background” and they’re absolutely useless - the approach to getting a defective train going is to punch every button, jab every switch, curse, and then hope that by luck the train moves, which quite often it doesn’t. Likewise it’s not much cop having people who can’t write a coherent report or entry on a trouble card.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum there’s people of “limited educational background” who are wonderful - can get any train going no matter what, or can put a disrupted service back together in a seemingly effortless fashion.

Attitude and personality is a far better indicator of a good railwayman; someone who resents someone else’s education is as bad as the stereotypical graduate who has trouble relating to non-graduates. Both are just as bad in their own ways. I’d suggest the examples given are of people with bad attitude / bad personality rather than because of their educational background.

If there’s four quadrants made up of graduate/excellent, graduate/useless, 40 years experience/excellent, 40 years experience/useless then I’d say all four boxes are populated fairly evenly. Just from my local area I can quite happily fill all four. Neither should length of service ever be equated with competence in my experience.

 

[Stigy]

Don’t really agree with this.

Where I am there’s people with what might be described as having a “limited educational background” and they’re absolutely useless - the approach to getting a defective train going is to punch every button, jab every switch, curse, and then hope that by luck the train moves, which quite often it doesn’t. Likewise it’s not much cop having people who can’t write a coherent report or entry on a trouble card.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum there’s people of “limited educational background” who are wonderful - can get any train going no matter what, or can put a disrupted service back together in a seemingly effortless fashion.

Attitude and personality is a far better indicator of a good railwayman; someone who resents someone else’s education is as bad as the stereotypical graduate who has trouble relating to non-graduates. Both are just as bad in their own ways. I’d suggest the examples given are of people with bad attitude / bad personality rather than because of their educational background.

If there’s four quadrants made up of graduate/excellent, graduate/useless, 40 years experience/excellent, 40 years experience/useless then I’d say all four boxes are populated fairly evenly. Just from my local area I can quite happily fill all four. Neither should length of service ever be equated with competence in my experience.

I agree with you that there’s good and bad in all quadrants, however I also agree with @C J Snarzell when he mentions the police. I’ve witnessed similar on the railway where graduates have been favoured fundamentally, and been given jobs based on their academic qualifications. In jobs where people skills and life experience are paramount (such as policing), you can have all the academic qualifications in the world, but only really come in to your own when you have to deal with real life, front line situations. I’ve got no issue with graduates being promoted on a fast track basis, as long as they gain the necessary skill set along the way.

 

[Ducatist4]

The Police have a graduate recruitment programme so you can go straight in at Inspector or superintendent level with no Police experience as long as you have the right qualifications etc.

 

[Stigy]

The Police have a graduate recruitment programme so you can go straight in at Inspector or superintendent level with no Police experience as long as you have the right qualifications etc.

I don’t think you necessarily need ‘the right qualifications’ as king as it’s a degree of some....degree?

 

[Ducatist4]

They call it graduate entry but you don't actually need a degree, work experience and lesser qualifications will also do it.

 

[Stigy]

They call it graduate entry but you don't actually need a degree, work experience and lesser qualifications will also do it.

I believe the railway do this with their schemes now too. Can’t really see the point in the police method at entering at a high rank, although admittedly if you have the relevant work experience this will serve as a benefit. At least on the railway you start in a lower management grade and experience a number of areas of the business during the program.

 

[bramling]

I agree with you that there’s good and bad in all quadrants, however I also agree with @C J Snarzell when he mentions the police. I’ve witnessed similar on the railway where graduates have been favoured fundamentally, and been given jobs based on their academic qualifications. In jobs where people skills and life experience are paramount (such as policing), you can have all the academic qualifications in the world, but only really come in to your own when you have to deal with real life, front line situations. I’ve got no issue with graduates being promoted on a fast track basis, as long as they gain the necessary skill set along the way.

To be fair, I wasn't really thinking of graduate programme people, but more along the lines that graduate=academic qualification and how this relates to people who do a particular job.

As regards people who have come through graduate programmes, I think a lot depends on who has been picked, and how they choose to conduct themselves. Some are only too keen to get stuck in and learn, others shy away from this. Certainly where I am I can think of a couple of particularly unpleasant female graduates who have zero people skills, in fact haven't shown much aptitude in anything other than to cause problems. However there's others who are wonderful. Again it comes down to the individual. I don't think graduates should be fast-tracked without having time built into their programme to properly gain experience.

There again we have someone I can think of who has very much come "through the grades" over time, and who is now *less* mature than he was 10 years ago, which is quite an achievement...

 

[bramling]

I believe the railway do this with their schemes now too. Can’t really see the point in the police method at entering at a high rank, although admittedly if you have the relevant work experience this will serve as a benefit. At least on the railway you start in a lower management grade and experience a number of areas of the business during the program.

There's certainly graduate schemes on some parts of the railway aimed at producing operational managers. Where I am the reception is quite polarised - some pick it up very quickly and are generally regarded as superb, whilst others are regarded as utterly appalling. There doesn't seem to be much in between.

 

[Red1980]

The Police have a graduate recruitment programme so you can go straight in at Inspector or superintendent level with no Police experience as long as you have the right qualifications etc.

The reason for that is above a certain rank, although attested "policing duties" as you or I would see them are extremely minimal..... especially in an operational sense.

At certain ranks duties are more about staffing and budgetary issues than they are serving the public per say.

Not that I agree with it btw. I still think inspectors, chief supers and chief constables would be able to carry out the role far more effectively with an actual policing background.

The Railway is going the same way! The head of drivers at my former TOC had never held train driving competency in his life!

 

[Steam Man]

Depends on the role you will be applying for. although selling yourself is the hardest part in getting a job on the railway ( as there's hundreds possibly thousands of others doing the same thing) It Is worth remembering that there Is actually a reason they're asking you to sell yourself......It's not just to look good on an application form or through a recruitment campaign.....It's to actually see If you have some of the skills required to be able to carry out the roles successfully and safely.

for example...yes there are jobs out there requiring no formal qualifications such as driving and guards etc....but it's worth remembering the reason they do ask for a decent level of maths and English Is because even In operational roles some of those things (although basic) will be required. There Is lots of technology nowadays which will aid people who aren't so strong at maths etc but that Is generally just an aid and isn't seen as something to be relied upon to get you through your day.

We often see on these boards people bragging about their qualifications when they have degrees etc and how they should walk into a job on the railway with them......and I'm the first to reply that qualifications mean you excel in a classroom environment but it's common sense that stops you from killing someone.......however I would recommend getting something In your case just simply because of the numbers you're up against these days.....If you can't get the qualifications through an online course or something do like some others have said and get the experience to make up for It somehow. Yes this may mean you have to start In a grade that Isn't your first choice maybe but unfortunately those are the cards you have been dealt.

Don't think though that starting In a grade that you may see as beneath you Is going to hinder you.....as good as grades are you can't buy experience and having to work your way to where you want to be will put you in sight of the people who may be giving you the job that you are hoping for, And think how satisfying It will be knowing you've worked your way up and understand the Industry from the perspective of other grades. the good thing about the railway Is there Is always someone somewhere willing to give the right person a shot and once you've proven yourself you will easily be on par or even ahead of the guys/gals with grades coming out of their ears.

I left school with grades I would say are average at best and yes It did make getting my first job on the railway harder I won't lie.....but It didn't make It Impossible.....prove to them that you've got lots of other qualities within you and you'll be well on your way mate.

best of luck.

Red.

I’ve been working on a heritage railway

 

[Red1980]

Well things like that will always be of help. All I will say with being an enthusiast (if that's what you are lol) should you get to an interview use the heritage Railway in your examples etc when you feel necessary and it's relevant.....a lot of enthusiasts kick the back side out of it and managers end up wondering whether the candidate is going to end up taking more pictures of the passing steam train than concentrating on your safety critical dispatch duties for example.

Very best of luck pal.