Query about Rotherham bus route numbers

[Blondie01]

Hi, does anyone know which year Rotherham bus route numbers had a 1 put in front of them? For example, the 37 and 38 became 137 and 138. I've read on here something about numbers having 150 added to them at some point, but obviously that doesn't work here. Thanks.

 

[Mal]

It was when South Yorkshire PTE was set up and a common route numbering system adopted so would have been about 1987 or so. Others will know more defiinitely than me thogh!

 

[carlberry]

It was when South Yorkshire PTE was set up and a common route numbering system adopted so would have been about 1987 or so. Others will know more defiinitely than me thogh!

It was set up in 1974 however after 1986 it wouldn't have had any control over route numbering (other than contracts). I suspect, like most PTEs, it introduced area numbering quite early on in it's existance to make it easier for it's office staff.

 

[Blondie01]

It was when South Yorkshire PTE was set up and a common route numbering system adopted so would have been about 1987 or so. Others will know more defiinitely than me thogh!

Yes that sounds about right, thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2022 ==

It was set up in 1974 however after 1986 it wouldn't have had any control over route numbering (other than contracts). I suspect, like most PTEs, it introduced area numbering quite early on in it's existance to make it easier for it's office staff.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Ken H]

It was when South Yorkshire PTE was set up and a common route numbering system adopted so would have been about 1987 or so. Others will know more defiinitely than me thogh!

West yorkshire PTE did renumbering but it was a few years after the PTE was created. So 1987 may be a tad early.

 

[martinsh]

It was set up in 1974 however after 1986 it wouldn't have had any control over route numbering (other than contracts). I suspect, like most PTEs, it introduced area numbering quite early on in it's existance to make it easier for it's office staff.

Certainly by 1977 when I was at Sheffield University

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was set up in 1974 however after 1986 it wouldn't have had any control over route numbering (other than contracts). I suspect, like most PTEs, it introduced area numbering quite early on in it's existance to make it easier for it's office staff.

Flickr shows this shot (credit Richard Simons) showing it no later than 1981

1493. LET 193G: South Yorkshire PTE

South Yorkshire PTE 1493 is working service 133 from Rotherham to Treeton. It is a Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX with Roe bodywork, new in 1969 as Rotherham Transport 193. It was withdrawn in 1981 and scrapped.

www.flickr.com

...whilst this Mike Rhodes shot suggests as early at 1975

SYPTE Ex-Rotherham - Daimler CVG 1271

Rotherham Bus Station - 8/11/1975

www.flickr.com

As @carlberry suggests, it was probably for admin reasons as those new fangled computers struggled with duplicated numbers

 

[madannie77]

South Yorkshire's Transport 1974-1995 by D Scott Hellewell mentions a phased introduction of a county-wide numbering which began in September 1973 and concluded in February 1975.

Certainly all the Rotherham local routes (except the 70) were renumbered between 101 and 141 by the March 1975 timetable.

I recall the renumbering of some Sheffield services being renumbered in late 1973 and early 1974 before SYPTE took over, and for a long time I had an advert from the local paper giving details of all the renumberings for one of these phases. Long lost, unfortunately.

 

[Falcon1200]

In April 1975 I visited Wath Depot, planning to use, as per my 1973 Locoshed Book and Directory, the 28 West Melton bus from Rotherham. However it had been renumbered to 228, as I found out enquiring at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus Station !

 

[gazmark]

South Yorkshire's Transport 1974-1995 by D Scott Hellewell mentions a phased introduction of a county-wide numbering which began in September 1973 and concluded in February 1975.

Certainly all the Rotherham local routes (except the 70) were renumbered between 101 and 141 by the March 1975 timetable.

I recall the renumbering of some Sheffield services being renumbered in late 1973 and early 1974 before SYPTE took over, and for a long time I had an advert from the local paper giving details of all the renumberings for one of these phases. Long lost, unfortunately.

2 prefixed numbers where used for Traction routes and 4 prefixed numbers for Doncaster routes

 

[Roilshead]

South Yorkshire's Transport 1974-1995 by D Scott Hellewell mentions a phased introduction of a county-wide numbering which began in September 1973 and concluded in February 1975.

Errr . . . p57 refers to a phased renumbering which took place - adding 100 to Rotherham numbers (and 160 to Doncaster numbers) - from 2nd February 1975 (Phase I) and 2nd March 1975 (Phase II). As neither South Yorkshire county nor SYPTE were formed until 1st April 1974, there's no way that any "county-wide" initiative could have been implemented before this date.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2022 ==

2 prefixed numbers where used for Traction routes and 4 prefixed numbers for Doncaster routes

Ex Doncaster CT services were renumbered by having 160 added (except 8, which become 158/159), the un-numbered Inner Circle becoming 160, giving a range of 158-199. The 4XX range was used for "out-county" West Riding and South Yorkshire Road Transport services from Doncaster (baing co-ordinated with West Yorkshire PTE)and certain school services throughout the SYPTE area (but particularly in Barnsley).

The 2XX series wasn't restricted to Yorkshire Traction routes, in fact most Yorkshire Traction routes were numbered in the 3XX series (which was the series reserved for Barnsley area routes) - this series was reserved for "out-county" services from Sheffield and Barnsley (and was co-ordinated with West Yorkshire PTE for Yorkshire Traction services from Barnsley into West Yorkshire).

As recorded in "South Yorkshire's Transport 1974-1995", D Scott Hellewell, Venture Publications, 1996.

 

[madannie77]

Perhaps describing it (as it is on page 153 of the book) as a county wide scheme is inaccurate, but although SYPTE did not take over until April 1974 planning had been under way for some time.

The initial part of the renumbering scheme was clearly to remove all Sheffield 1xx route numbers and move most of Sheffield's longer distance & cross boundary routes into the 2xx series. I remember this happening on or before April 1974 as two of the routes were local to me: the 105 became the 72 and the 164 became the 74. I would imagine that it was only after SHeffield's numbers were tidied up that the Rotherham & Doncaster renumberings could happen.

Attached is a note from the inside front cover of Sheffield Transport's November 1973 timetable.

"changes are being made to some service numbers in order to group them in a more orderly series, and particularly to avoid there being more than one service (irrespective of the actual operator) with the same number in any part of the Sheffield District, when the new local authority areas become effective in April 1974"

 

[Roilshead]

"changes are being made to some service numbers in order to group them in a more orderly series, and particularly to avoid there being more than one service (irrespective of the actual operator) with the same number in any part of the Sheffield District, when the new local authority areas become effective in April 1974"

Those Sheffield Transport services that were renumbered in 1973 were subsequently renumbered into the 9XX series in the 1975 scheme - clearly the 1973 scheme was Sheffield-inspired and not a PTE initiative . . . the newly-appointed PTE Directors didn't meet until 19th October 1973, and no chief officers were appointed until after December 1973, so no planning could have taken place until at least 1974.

 

[madannie77]

Those Sheffield Transport services that were renumbered in 1973 were subsequently renumbered into the 9XX series in the 1975 scheme - clearly the 1973 scheme was Sheffield-inspired and not a PTE initiative . . . the newly-appointed PTE Directors didn't meet until 19th October 1973, and no chief officers were appointed until after December 1973, so no planning could have taken place until at least 1974.

Only 4 of the services listed in my attachment above were subsequently renumbered into the 9xx series, namely the night services. All the other routes listed retained their new route numbers for many years, in many cases for the duration of SYPTE's operating years.

Whether it was Sheffield inspired or not, the renumberings followed the pattern used by SYPTE, which resulted, as per the OPs query, in Rotherham's local routes being renumbered in early 1975.

 

[_toommm_]

It happened again to some buses recently when the Rotherham First depot closed. 37 became 137, 39 became 139 etc. Not all buses had 100 added though, for example, what was my local bus the 34 to Whiston became the 26 to Whiston.