Question about flasks

[Neo9320]

I seem to remember seeing (possibly on this forum, or I may have dreamt it) that the nuclear flask trains were accompanied by armed guards.

Did I dream this? Or is this actually a thing? If so does it still happen now?

I live near Bridgwater and have often seen the flasks getting loaded but don’t recall seeing any heavies.

Again, might have just dreamt this but any feedback is appreciated.

 

[JJmoogle]

The power station ones don't, the MoD ones often have attatched carriages with them in though.

 

[The exile]

And there was me thinking of containers of hot tea!!!!!

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

The civil waste is usually transported in FNA-Ds without an escort, and I’m not sure where those are stored, but the submarine waste is transported in a pair of KUAs which spend most of their time parked up at Sellafield, although I don’t think they’ll be visible from the site boundary before anyone goes looking!

They usually get sandwiched between a pair of support coaches like these:

DRS support coaches

DRS Mk2 BSO's 9419 and 9428 stabled in Kingmoor Depot Saturday 17th August 2013

flic.kr

(Image from Flickr, credit to Rob Barton)

In the days of the 37s, they would top and tail, but with the 68/88s, I’ve seen it with both locos at one end more than top and tailed.

There’s a discussion about the coaches here:

DRS Mk2 Coaches and the Nuclear Escort role

I’m looking for some information regarding DRS Mk2 coaches. When were the DRS liveried ones first introduced, where were they sourced and did they wear any other livery before being repainted into DRS Compass livery? I’m mainly interested in the DRS coaches that have been used to escort...

www.railforums.co.uk

If you have access to Facebook, search for Cumbrian Coast Railways, and somewhere on there you’ll find some pictures, including some from a DRS employee who usually gets some interesting shots.

 

[Neo9320]

And there was me thinking of containers of hot tea!!!!!

lol! I’m sure there’s more of those flasks on regular service than the ones I’m talking about.

The power station ones don't, the MoD ones often have attatched carriages with them in though.

So I didn’t dream it! Thanks for the reply.

 

[Robin Procter]

The power station ones don't, the MoD ones often have attatched carriages with them in though.

.... That's the information I have too. But the power stations do have security staff and unauthorised entry is classed as a criminal offence. A friend of mine has a security job at a power station being decommissioned.

 

[Neo9320]

.... That's the information I have too. But the power stations do have security staff and unauthorised entry is classed as a criminal offence. A friend of mine has a security job at a power station being decommissioned.

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Awesome pics! Thanks for the info!

 

[Chris Hamilton]

.... That's the information I have too. But the power stations do have security staff and unauthorised entry is classed as a criminal offence. A friend of mine has a security job at a power station being decommissioned.

Those ”Security Staff” are often the “Civil Nuclear Constabulary” (formerly the Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary), and are routinely armed, though unarmed private contractors are usually seen as well at places like entry points and checks.

I went on a prearranged tour of Torness a few years ago, and arrived about an hour early, so was sat in my car at a field entrance on the approach road eating my sandwich and killing time. A CNC patrol took great interest in me and observed me for a short period before heading off around the perimeter fence.

 

[Neo9320]

Those ”Security Staff” are often the “Civil Nuclear Constabulary” (formerly the Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary), and are routinely armed, though unarmed private contractors are usually seen as well at places like entry points and checks.

I went on a prearranged tour of Torness a few years ago, and arrived about an hour early, so was sat in my car at a field entrance on the approach road eating my sandwich and killing time. A CNC patrol took great interest in me and observed me for a short period before heading off around the perimeter fence.

That’s awesome!! Nearly killed for eating a sandwich is definitely something to tell the grandkids lol

 

[Leeds1970]

i worked(power station) flask trains for BR and the consist was loco, barrier wagon, flask(s) wagon(s), barrier wagon, brakevan.
staff = driver & Guard +sometimes also a drivers assistant/secondman depending on which location you were going to. as soon as EWS took over the brakevans were dispensed with and the guard rode on the loco. police were present on random occasions at the loading site but never had any on the trains.

 

[Gloster]

I always understood that a major reason for the guard travelling in a brake van on nuclear and other hazardous goods train, such as those carrying hydrocyanic acid or anhydrous ammonia, was so that in the event of derailment or similar the guard did not have to pass the load when going to protect the train in rear. Whether there was still a fear, Old Dalby notwithstanding, of a slight leakage from the flasks or whether all dangerous goods simply got all the precautions is probably lost to history.

 

[_toommm_]

.... That's the information I have too. But the power stations do have security staff and unauthorised entry is classed as a criminal offence. A friend of mine has a security job at a power station being decommissioned.

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Another picture or two from Sellafield. This is the path between the golf course at Seascale, and Sellafield station. It’s sandwiched inbetween the nuclear sidings and the Cumbrian Coast:

 

[Leeds1970]

I always understood that a major reason for the guard travelling in a brake van on nuclear and other hazardous goods train, such as those carrying hydrocyanic acid or anhydrous ammonia, was so that in the event of derailment or similar the guard did not have to pass the load when going to protect the train in rear. Whether there was still a fear, Old Dalby notwithstanding, of a slight leakage from the flasks or whether all dangerous goods simply got all the precautions is probably lost to history.

with the exception of flasks probably most dangerous goods loads are all now lost to road haulage the punchline being road is inherently more dangerous than rail

 

[furnessvale]

with the exception of flasks probably most dangerous goods loads are all now lost to road haulage the punchline being road is inherently more dangerous than rail

Correct. When the caustic soda traffic was lost to road the DfT actually stated it was safer on the motorways rather than on rail because railways pass through towns.

Ther relative safety of rail v road, or the fact that a busy motorway is a town on the move, seems to have escaped the boffins at DfT.

 

[DarloRich]

The trains carrying military (submarine) waste carry guards. I assume the waste is more dangerous or more usable by wrong uns to cause bother.

.... That's the information I have too. But the power stations do have security staff and unauthorised entry is classed as a criminal offence. A friend of mine has a security job at a power station being decommissioned.




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Point of order: That isn't a flask train. It looks like a train of low level nuclear waste

That’s awesome!! Nearly killed for eating a sandwich is definitely something to tell the grandkids lol

You won't be almost killed for anything like that! They will come and ask what you are up to and move you on just like every other armed officer. It has happened to me. VERY politely asked to move on. I was lost. He gave me directions.

If you suddenly try to ram the gate or fence you might get shot!

with the exception of flasks probably most dangerous goods loads are all now lost to road haulage the punchline being road is inherently more dangerous than rail

There are, of course, routine transports of nuclear waste and nuclear weapons by road.

 

[D365]

My understanding is that DRS locomotives (past and present) have specific modifications to support their specialist traffic flows.

 

[Neo9320]

The trains carrying military (submarine) waste carry guards. I assume the waste is more dangerous or more usable by wrong uns to cause bother.

Point of order: That isn't a flask train. It looks like a train of low level nuclear waste

You won't be almost killed for anything like that! They will come and ask what you are up to and move you on just like every other armed officer. It has happened to me. VERY politely asked to move on. I was lost. He gave me directions.

If you suddenly try to ram the gate or fence you might get shot!


There are, of course, routine transports of nuclear waste and nuclear weapons by road.

Well yeah ramming the gates might be a little bit of a reason lol, as ever many thanks for your response.

 

[DarloRich]

Well yeah ramming the gates might be a little bit of a reason lol, as ever many thanks for your response.

i only know as i was QUITE concerned when a policeman armed with a machine gun knocks on your window!

 

[hwl]

The trains carrying military (submarine) waste carry guards. I assume the waste is more dangerous or more usable by wrong uns to cause bother.

Power stations typically use rods of 3 different concentrations 3.5- 5.3% that will average 4.2 - 4.5% across the reactor when new. (More greater concentration rods on the outside and fewer on the inside to achieve a more even neutron flux with 20-25% replacement rate a year.)
The average in subs is around 24% when new and still above 20% when spent. This gives wrong uns a huge head start compared to stealing power station rods, hence the extra disincentive.

 

[Neo9320]

Power stations typically use rods of 3 different concentrations 3.5- 5.3% that will average 4.2 - 4.5% across the reactor when new. (More greater concentration rods on the outside and fewer on the inside to achieve a more even neutron flux with 20-25% replacement rate a year.)
The average in subs is around 24% when new and still above 20% when spent. This gives wrong uns a huge head start compared to stealing power station rods, hence the extra disincentive.

The more you know! Many thanks for the insight!