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Question: Is there a route between two UK mainland stations that has never before been undertaken?

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tanderson596

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Rephrased another way, does anyone know whether there is a combination of two UK train stations (likely quiet ones) for which no tickets have been sold, and no passengers have ever travelled?

This will help my mates and I, who are discussing this in the pub. I thought that it seemed sensible to enlist the help of rail boffins worldwide.

Will we never know the answer?
 
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zwk500

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Without scrutiny of every single ticket ever sold it would be impossible to disprove the antithesis.
I would be very surprised if any ticket had ever been sold from Southease (between Lewes and Newhaven in Sussex) to James Cook (in suburban Middlesbrough), but you couldn't be sure it had never happened without looking at the data.
Also how are you counting Rover's and Rangers?
 

JonathanH

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Will we never know the answer?
That seems highly likely.

There is a display at Northampton station where they appear to have been trying to collect an example of a ticket to Northampton from all of the other stations in the country. There are still gaps.
 

Deepgreen

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Probably impossible to determine, especially if you include now-closed stations. There are so many remote and unlikely stations that routes from them to other similar stations abound, but proving it...
 

kacper

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something ridiculous like Berney Arms to Wick has probably never been done
 

Oxfordblues

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Manchester Victoria to Manchester Exchange (for which you only needed a platform ticket!)
 

zwk500

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something ridiculous like Berney Arms to Wick has probably never been done
There's probably a weird outlier in that the very strangest journeys are more likely to have been done by enthusiasts setting themselves challenges. Whereas something like Coulsdon Town to Biggleswade is not remarkable enough for an enthusiast but very few people would have a genuine reason to take the journey.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Without scrutiny of every single ticket ever sold it would be impossible to disprove the antithesis.
Indeed. And all we'd then end up with is yet another list of random station pairings.

Any recently opened station will have a lot of undone journies.
So, Robroyston to Fishguard and Goodwick? Marsh Barton to Inverness Aitport? Warrington West to Portway Park & Ride? Be difficult to prove, one way or the other.
 

OhNoAPacer

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Would there be a chance that, apart from maybe enthusiasts using either a rover or break of journey, no tickets would have been sold for Whitehaven to Corkickle.
I agree that the OPs question is probably unanswerable.
 

greyman42

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Possibly something like Scotscalder to St. Erth. People have done Wick to Penzance but might not have done the journey between nearby stations if you get what i mean.
 

PTR 444

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That seems highly likely.

There is a display at Northampton station where they appear to have been trying to collect an example of a ticket to Northampton from all of the other stations in the country. There are still gaps.
Speaking of Northamptonshire, I’d be surprised if anyone’s made a train journey between Northampton and Kettering or Kings Sutton.
 

zwk500

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Speaking of Northamptonshire, I’d be surprised if anyone’s made a train journey between Northampton and Kettering or Kings Sutton.
You might have had journeys made between the towns historically, when the Northampton-Peterborough line was open although no idea what services ran back then.
 

Merle Haggard

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Speaking of Northamptonshire, I’d be surprised if anyone’s made a train journey between Northampton and Kettering or Kings Sutton.

When I started in the booking office there through tickets to anywhere in G.B. and the whole of Ireland could be issued, using paper tickets if Handiprinter or Edmundson weren't stocked. This was all replaced in early 1970 by the 'Selective Fares Manual' which limited the destinations available.
Memorably the entries under Northampton included Wellingborough; book Euston (tell passenger to) rebook St.Pancras.

The Selective Fares Manual (I have a hazy memory it was 'Selective Prices Manual, but may have been confused) lasted for years; presumably discarded at privatisation.
 

gg1

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Do you allow routes where one of the stations is a change/connection or are we purely talking about stations which are the start and the end of the journey? If the latter:

If my calculations are correct, there are over 3 million possible station pair journey combinations from Britain's 2,500 stations, IMO the number of those for which no one has ever bought a ticket would definitely be measured in 10s of thousands, possibly even 100s of thousands.

Firstly there's the numerous stations with tiny usage, even after accounting for enthusiast seeking out unusual journeys/tickers, I would expect the numbers of different stations from which people have ever bought a ticket to the likes of Sugarloaf, Pilning, IBM, Berney Arms, Redcar British Steel etc to be outnumbered by those stations from where no ticket has ever been sold.

The next big factor will be towns/cities with stations on separate lines but located within walking distance. Taking Wigan as one example, if you're planning a journey to Wigan where the most direct route involves either the entire journey or the final leg of the journey being on an Avanti or TPE service (ie the vast majority of destinations, probably well over 2,000 of the 2,500 British stations), there's no logical reason you'd buy a ticket to Wigan Wallgate. Glasgow is another example, from the majority of stations, there is only one logical choice out of Queen Street or Central to travel to, there's not many where choosing one over the other wouldn't result in a substantial increase in journey time.

Totalled up I think these two groups combined would easily account for 100s of thousands of theoretically possible station pairings, though in the second category we would need to subtract all the instances of people who booked them anyway due to either being an enthusiast who wanted an unusual routing plus regular passenger who simply didn't realise their mistake (and where the mistake wasn't picked up by either staff or online booking system at the time of purchase).
 

Mcr Warrior

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Taking Wigan as one example, if you're planning a journey to Wigan where the most direct route involves either the entire journey or the final leg of the journey being on an Avanti or TPE service (ie the vast majority of destinations, probably well over 2,000 of the 2,500 British stations), there's no logical reason you'd buy a ticket to Wigan Wallgate. Glasgow is another example, from the majority of stations, there is only one logical choice out of Queen Street or Central to travel to, there's not many where choosing one over the other wouldn't result in a substantial increase in journey time.
Aren't walk up tickets to Wigan invariably issued to "Wigan NW/Wallgte" and to Central Glasgow to "Glasgow Cen/QST"?
 

gg1

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Aren't walk up tickets to Wigan invariably issued to "Wigan NW/Wallgte" and to Central Glasgow to "Glasgow Cen/QST"?
Quite possibly, I've never travelled to either.

Booking online though it is possible to select a journey such as Euston to Wigan Wallgate where you have the option of either a walking connection at Wigan or an elongated route involving changes at Stockport and Oxford Road, or Piccadilly>Metrolink>Victoria. Technically someone could book a ticket to Wallgate from anywhere, but in reality you wouldn't do that for most journeys. Whether the ticket itself says Wallgate or just "Wigan stations" is another matter, no way of knowing for sure unless you actually book it.
 
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