Rail Fine came up on DBS, what do I do?

[B_1603]

Hi everyone,
Back in August I jumped on a train from Warrington Bank Quay to Manchester Piccadilly, and didn’t have a ticket. It’s foolish I know, and I did purchase a ticket upon arrival but I got fined from a Train Conductor. He told me that I’d receive a fine, and though I’d rather not be fined I did want to pay just to get it done and dusted.

However, I didn’t hear from The rail company, at all, and thus I’ll be honest I completely forgot about it. It wasn’t until just this morning that a DBS came through for a job that I applied for said that I had a Conviction for a Railway Fine.

I haven’t heard ANYTHING about this, not a peep, and I’m honestly panicking because I don’t know what to do. Will I lose my job offer? How do I go about rectifying this? How Long would this stay on my DBS?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone,
Back in August I jumped on a train from Warrington Bank Quay to Manchester Piccadilly, and didn’t have a ticket. It’s foolish I know, and I did purchase a ticket upon arrival but I got fined from a Train Conductor. He told me that I’d receive a fine, and though I’d rather not be fined I did want to pay just to get it done and dusted.

However, I didn’t hear from The rail company, at all, and thus I’ll be honest I completely forgot about it. It wasn’t until just this morning that a DBS came through for a job that I applied for said that I had a Conviction for a Railway Fine.

I haven’t heard ANYTHING about this, not a peep, and I’m honestly panicking because I don’t know what to do. Will I lose my job offer? How do I go about rectifying this? How Long would this stay on my DBS?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Welcome - someone will be along soon who knows about the process for getting to the bottom of this - but you need to engage with it I think.

Probably a bit more info from you will help, if you can remember eg

1. - when you were questioned by the conductor - did you give a name and address? Was that correct or have you moved since?
2. - did they give you any paperwork when you were questioned, did you keep it?
3. - do you recall which train company staff spoke to you - was it Northern?
4. - was it on train staff or staff at Manchester Piccadilly station?

As you can see from these threads what usually happens is after being stopped the railway company will write to you about the incident asking for your version of events (but threatening to take you to court if you do not reply, or if what you say means they think you are a deliberate fare evader)
If you do not reply to that letter (it would be posted to you in all likelihood - not an e-mail) the case gets escalated and can end up in court, where you could get found guilty in absence and fined and have a record which would show up on DBS - so this is what may have happened

- You probably need to find out what court made the conviction.

- If you never knew about there is a process using something called a Statutory Declaration - SD - (see other threads) which 'resets the clock' - this would allow you to negotiate with Northern for an out of court settlement of the original ticketing offence

If the above is what has happened have a look at some other threads on here involving SDs for an idea

But you need to act quickly as there is a short time limit between discovering that you have been taken to court without knowing it and lodging your SD. You may want to consider getting help from a solicitor for the SD, but that may not be necessary.

It is also possible that someone else dodging a ticket gave your name and false address etc - but given that you do recall a fare incident where you did not have a ticket - it would seem likely this relates to that, as indeed you yourself presumably assume.

Couple of past threads here probably worth you reading through for background

fare evasion conviction

Hi guys I need some advise on a matter relating fare evasion conviction, I just got a job and my employer did my basic DBS check and there was fare evasion conviction under my name and fine of almost £600, The offence date is May 2022 and i was convicted is septemer 2022. However I was not even...

www.railforums.co.uk

Can I still ask to settle out of court after submitting a Statutory Declaration?

Hi all This kind of question seems to be pretty common but I've had a search in other threads and can't find anything about this exact situation, that being: - In Dec 2021 I travelled with an out of date railcard, I realised and tried to buy a new one on the train but it didn't work (no...

www.railforums.co.uk

Ref the job offer - I'd be tempted to be honest ASAP and say to them you were completely unaware of the conviction concerned and you are now taking steps to understand what has happened.

 

[30907]

Just a couple of additional points:

1. As already mentioned, you need to find out the details of the offence and which Magistrates' Court was involved, and get the Statutory Declaration made.

2. You need to contact your future employer and explain the situation. Simply having a conviction for fare evasion is not necessarily a problem, but failing to tell them would be grounds for withdrawing the offer. So you need to tell them that you have only just learnt of the conviction (so your job application was correct).

PS if it turns out that the conviction is for something other than the incident you described, come back to us - it occasionally happens.

 

[malc-c]

Slightly off topic, but throughout my working life I've found it to be fully transparent and state everything openly when making job applications, including health. A lot of people think that if they declare lots of heath issues for example, that they are less likely to be employed, when in reality it simply means that its on record so the employer doesn't put you in a situation that could further damage your health, such as lifting if you've had back issues at some point in your life. Seeing that you are now aware of this conviction I would follow the advice given above. You've told them the truth that at the time of the application to your knowledge you had no convictions, and the conviction recorded is news to you, and that you are making every effort to obtain details. Now none of us can predict the outcome of the application, or how the employer reacts. They may be sympathetic, or may feel some untruths have been declared and reject your application... I guess it depends what their policies are and what the role you are applying for requires.

 

[some bloke]

You have 21 days to submit the statutory declaration of "ignorance of proceedings", which automatically makes the verdict void, with basically no questions asked. As @WesternLancer says, that resets the process so you can try to get the case dropped or a settlement offer from the company.

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

So the more urgent issue may be what to say to the prospective employer.

What if anything did the employer add to what the DBS said? Have they asked questions?

What details did the DBS check show?

Can you truthfully tell the employer that you are not guilty of the offence - for example if it says you intended to avoid a fare when in fact you intended to pay at the other end?

Is it possible as @30907 suggests, that the conviction is for a different incident from the one you mention - or is the result of someone else giving your details?

Are you a member of a union? They may be able to provide help both with the employer and with the legal process.

Edit: I've just phoned ACAS, who say they would be happy to advise on what to say to the employer - though it's best to find out as much as you can from DBS first.

0300 123 1100

Contact us | Acas

Contact details for Acas, including phone numbers to call our helpline, training and other Acas services.

www.acas.org.uk

You can also contact NACRO, who ACAS may refer people to:

0300 123 1999

Advice for individuals

We offer information and advice for individuals on criminal record related issues, from disclosure to DBS checks. Find out more here.

www.nacro.org.uk

and Unlock:

01634 247350

The Helpline - Unlock

unlock.org.uk

How Long would this stay on my DBS?

If it's a basic check, a conviction resulting in a fine would not show after a year.

DBS checks: detailed guidance

A collection of guidance documents and information about DBS checks and processes.

www.gov.uk

Rehabilitation Periods

A table of rehabilitation periods for the most common sentences and disposals, and example scenarios.

www.gov.uk

When the conviction is voided you can liaise with ACRO to make sure it's removed from the "Police National Computer" database, perhaps also checking via a subject access request and/or the DBS.

ACRO Criminal Records Office - Record deletion

 

[spag23]

Is the OP confident that they gave the correct address? And, if no longer residing there, was there a reliable forwarding arrangement set up?
The conviction suggests that they seem to have lost a lot of inbound mail.

 

[AlterEgo]

However, I didn’t hear from The rail company, at all, and thus I’ll be honest I completely forgot about it. It wasn’t until just this morning that a DBS came through for a job that I applied for said that I had a Conviction for a Railway Fine.

What sort of DBS was it? Standard or Enhanced? And in particular, can you tell us which offence you were charged under?

 

[spag23]

The conviction suggests that they seem to have lost a lot of inbound mail.

And if the sentence hasn't been settled - fine or (unlikely) custodial - the Courts will surely be seeking the offender.
Conversely if the matter has been settled, the settler obviously wasn't the OP. All very strange.

 

[B_1603]

You have 21 days to submit the statutory declaration of "ignorance of proceedings", which automatically makes the verdict void, with basically no questions asked. As @WesternLancer says, that resets the process so you can try to get the case dropped or a settlement offer from the company.

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

So the more urgent issue may be what to say to the prospective employer.

What if anything did the employer add to what the DBS said? Have they asked questions?

What details did the DBS check show?

Can you truthfully tell the employer that you are not guilty of the offence - for example if it says you intended to avoid a fare when in fact you intended to pay at the other end?

Is it possible as @30907 suggests, that the conviction is for a different incident from the one you mention - or is the result of someone else giving your details?

Are you a member of a union? They may be able to provide help both with the employer and with the legal process.

Edit: I've just phoned ACAS, who say they would be happy to advise on what to say to the employer - though it's best to find out as much as you can from DBS first.

0300 123 1100

Contact us | Acas

Contact details for Acas, including phone numbers to call our helpline, training and other Acas services.

www.acas.org.uk

You can also contact NACRO, who ACAS may refer people to:

0300 123 1999

Advice for individuals

We offer information and advice for individuals on criminal record related issues, from disclosure to DBS checks. Find out more here.

www.nacro.org.uk

and Unlock:

01634 247350

The Helpline - Unlock

unlock.org.uk

If it's a basic check, a conviction resulting in a fine would not show after a year.

DBS checks: detailed guidance

A collection of guidance documents and information about DBS checks and processes.

www.gov.uk

Rehabilitation Periods

A table of rehabilitation periods for the most common sentences and disposals, and example scenarios.

www.gov.uk

When the conviction is voided you can liaise with ACRO to make sure it's removed from the "Police National Computer" database, perhaps also checking via a subject access request and/or the DBS.

ACRO Criminal Records Office - Record deletion

Will the verdict definitely be voided after the Statutory Declaration? I sent one off this afternoon.

 

[some bloke]

Will the verdict definitely be voided after the Statutory Declaration? I sent one off this afternoon.

Do you mean a witnessed declaration? In case it isn't clear, the declaration has to be made in front of (witnessed by) a suitable person such as a magistrate or solicitor. That's what makes it different and more serious than a simple signed declaration. As the form says, magistrates' court staff can help.

Here are some more points:

It is generally wise to make the declaration witnessed by a solicitor rather than at the court, to prevent the court starting to deal with the case at the same time as you make the declaration.

You can call a solicitor's office and check how much they charge for witnessing the declaration - it should be something like £5 or £10. Make sure that the solicitor does not think you are asking for advice on the case and so expecting you to pay more than the small fee for witnessing the declaration.

If you submit the declaration within 21 days of hearing about the criminal case/conviction, the court is obliged to void the conviction simply because you have made the declaration that you didn't know you were charged with the offence. The merits of your defence don't matter.

If you give us all the details you've been sent from the DBS check (anonymised so for example "my address" or "my address except for the house number"), those could help clarify what you need to do.

As the form says in "Notes for Guidance", if the declaration is submitted properly within the 21 days, then the court has no choice but to void the verdict. These are the legal provisions:

Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to the jurisdiction of, and the practice and procedure before, magistrates’ courts and the functions of justices’ clerks, and to matters connected therewith, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to the jurisdiction of, and the practice and procedure before, magistrates’ courts and the functions of justices’ clerks, and to matters connected therewith, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

As the conviction appeared on the DBS check, we'd expect it to be for an offence which the company is not allowed to prosecute for via the single justice procedure - it's probably under the 1889 Regulation of Railways Act - so you would tick "section 14".

You could email asking the court staff to confirm in writing whether the case did begin with a single justice procedure notice (in case anything went wrong with the process, but no need to mention that bit to the court staff for this purpose) so that you can submit a plea at the same time if necessary or just in case.

If you haven't submitted a witnessed declaration all filled in correctly (which would have been a very quick achievement) you can come back here for advice on it.

You don't have to submit the declaration as soon as possible, but the employer may look more favourably on a prompt as well as helpful reply.

 

[30907]

Will the verdict definitely be voided after the Statutory Declaration?

Yes, but the train company may restart proceedings.

I sent one off this afternoon.

Having got it witnessed by a solicitor?

 

[B_1603]

Yes, but the train company may restart proceedings.

Having got it witnessed by a solicitor?

No, should I do that?? And does the solicitor have to be operating in a certain type of law or?

 

[B_1603]

Do you mean a witnessed declaration? In case it isn't clear, the declaration has to be made in front of (witnessed by) a suitable person such as a magistrate or solicitor. That's what makes it different and more serious than a simple signed declaration. As the form says, magistrates' court staff can help.

Here are some more points:



If you give us all the details you've been sent from the DBS check (anonymised so for example "my address" or "my address except for the house number"), those could help clarify what you need to do.

As the form says in "Notes for Guidance", if the declaration is submitted properly within the 21 days, then the court has no choice but to void the verdict. These are the legal provisions:

Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to the jurisdiction of, and the practice and procedure before, magistrates’ courts and the functions of justices’ clerks, and to matters connected therewith, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to the jurisdiction of, and the practice and procedure before, magistrates’ courts and the functions of justices’ clerks, and to matters connected therewith, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

As the conviction appeared on the DBS check, we'd expect it to be for an offence which the company is not allowed to prosecute for via the single justice procedure - it's probably under the 1889 Regulation of Railways Act - so you would tick "section 14".

You could email asking the court staff to confirm in writing whether the case did begin with a single justice procedure notice (in case anything went wrong with the process, but no need to mention that bit to the court staff for this purpose) so that you can submit a plea at the same time if necessary or just in case.

If you haven't submitted a witnessed declaration all filled in correctly (which would have been a very quick achievement) you can come back here for advice on it.

You don't have to submit the declaration as soon as possible, but the employer may look more favourably on a prompt as well as helpful reply.

Okay I see, should I get the Declaration witnessed by a solicitor then? The one I did just did it over the phone, I phoned the lady at the court and she did it.

 

[some bloke]

the train company may restart proceedings.

The application for the summons, or the written charge, are not voided (Criminal Procedure Rule 44.2, (4) to (6)). One consequence is that if the defendant makes the declaration at court, the court can begin hearing the case immediately.

The Criminal Procedure Rules 2020
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/759/part/44/made

 

[B_1603]

Ah okay, so Should I go to a solicitor and have them be a witness? Would that then void the conviction?

 

[tspaul26]

Okay I see, should I get the Declaration witnessed by a solicitor then? The one I did just did it over the phone, I phoned the lady at the court and she did it.

A statutory declaration cannot be completed over the telephone.

Ah okay, so Should I go to a solicitor and have them be a witness? Would that then void the conviction?

Go to see any high street solicitor who deals with criminal work. There will be a fee of up to £5 for taking the declaration from you.

The completed declaration (including the solicitor’s signature) must then be lodged with the relevant court.

You have 21 days after the first day you learnt of the conviction to do this so do not delay.

 

[B_1603]

A statutory declaration cannot be completed over the telephone.

Go to see any high street solicitor who deals with criminal work. There will be a fee of up to £5 for taking the declaration from you.

The completed declaration (including the solicitor’s signature) must then be lodged with the relevant court.

You have 21 days after the first day you learnt of the conviction to do this so do not delay.

Okay brilliant, thank you for the response. First thing Monday I’ll go to a local solicitor and get the Stat Dec. Would I then take it to the local court and lodge it there?

Then this conviction would be void and the process would start again? Is that how this works?

 

[some bloke]

Ah okay, so Should I go to a solicitor and have them be a witness? Would that then void the conviction?

Yes, the law quoted above says the conviction is void if the declaration is properly made and on time. It's well worth reading the form and its notes carefully.

You can call the solicitor's office first to make an appointment. Make clear that you will bring the completed form (fill it in except for your signature and the parts for the solicitor) and would like it witnessed, and confirm the fee, so they don't think you want the solicitor to draw up the form, or arrange for it to be sent to the court, or give you any other help.

Have the court staff confirmed that the case began with a summons? If so you can tick "section 14".

You can email the court telling them about the invalid form you've sent, to save them the trouble of contacting you (and help keep on their good side).

If the employer would be happier to see quick progress, which would be understandable, maybe the court staff can (if you ask them nicely) get the court to deal with your pre-witnessed declaration urgently. The staff might suggest you attend court to make the declaration instead, in which case @Puffing Devil or others may have comments on how to avoid the court trying to deal with the case immediately, or advise against doing it that way.

The staff may say there is a long wait for this kind of thing, but in reality it is very quick for the court to look at the form so the conviction could be voided quickly. We might expect staff to use their discretion to make early appointments in cases like yours where a job offer may depend on it.

 

[tspaul26]

Would I then take it to the local court and lodge it there?

This is important: you need to take (or send) the completed declaration to the court which convicted you. This might not be your local court.

@some bloke has also given some extra advice in post #18 on how to go about dealing with this which I would endorse.

Then this conviction would be void and the process would start again? Is that how this works?

Yes, as long as you complete and lodge the declaration correctly and on time.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay brilliant, thank you for the response. First thing Monday I’ll go to a local solicitor and get the Stat Dec. Would I then take it to the local court and lodge it there?

Then this conviction would be void and the process would start again? Is that how this works?

Obv some clear advice on here ref the SD.
The other thing for you to think about is how to start engaging with the train company soon after the SD is in I would think. Do you know which one? You could then write to them to inform them of what you are doing and ask if the case can be re-opened by them as you would like to try to resolve the matter co-operatively (which is what you should / would have done had you been aware of their correspondence originally) - also to try and check if they have your address and details correct etc - ie what was the reason you never got letter(s) from them etc etc.

 

[some bloke]

Would I then take it to the local court and lodge it there?

Then this conviction would be void and the process would start again? Is that how this works?

This may be important for communicating with the employer: The conviction isn't void until the court deals with it. That's the reason for the points above about trying to get the court staff to prioritise your declaration.

In case it's useful: You can't reasonably tell the employer "I've put the declaration in and the conviction is now void".

I would be wary of any general predictions from court staff about how long the wait could be - probably best not to tell the employer that you are confident about when it will happen unless there is a specific date.

 

[B_1603]

Obv some clear advice on here ref the SD.
The other thing for you to think about is how to start engaging with the train company soon after the SD is in I would think. Do you know which one? You could then write to them to inform them of what you are doing and ask if the case can be re-opened by them as you would like to try to resolve the matter co-operatively (which is what you should / would have done had you been aware of their correspondence originally) - also to try and check if they have your address and details correct etc - ie what was the reason you never got letter(s) from them etc etc.

Okay so my action plan for Monday is to get my Statutory Declaration sent off and witnessed by a solicitor, and Lodged with my Local Court. Then, I’ll get in touch with the train company and explain a)my lack of correspondence and b)my moving forward w/ the Stat Dec and a desire to reopen the case

 

[B_1603]

This may be important for communicating with the employer: The conviction isn't void until the court deals with it. That's the reason for the points above about trying to get the court staff to prioritise your declaration.

In case it's useful: You can't reasonably tell the employer "I've put the declaration in and the conviction is now void".

I would be wary of any general predictions from court staff about how long the wait could be - probably best not to tell the employer that you are confident about when it will happen unless there is a specific date.

Thank you for your replies I honestly really appreciate it them. I’ve got a bit of an action plan and I’m panicking less, where would I go to actually get a Stat Dec form? Would this be at the solicitors or somewhere online?

 

[tspaul26]

Thank you for your replies I honestly really appreciate it them. I’ve got a bit of an action plan and I’m panicking less, where would I go to actually get a Stat Dec form? Would this be at the solicitors or somewhere online?

Download the form from here:

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

 

[some bloke]

Thank you for your replies I honestly really appreciate it them. I’ve got a bit of an action plan and I’m panicking less, where would I go to actually get a Stat Dec form? Would this be at the solicitors or somewhere online?

The link is in this post:

You have 21 days to submit the statutory declaration...

I suggest you go through the thread again, perhaps copying the text and marking parts that seem useful.

To get the best advice, you will need to answer some of the questions such as whether you can truthfully tell the employer you are not guilty of the offence.

If you post a draft on here of a letter to the company, people can help you with it.

Have you contacted ACAS, Nacro or Unlock, or a union?

Just in case: Please make sure you are doing what the employer wants about communicating with them, rather than concentrating on the legal aspect hoping that you can sort it out very quickly, to the point where you are neglecting the employer because you don't want to bother them until it's sorted out. You may or may not be able to do it fast.

 

[spag23]

Lodged with my Local Court.

As tspaul26 says in post #19, check this is the right Court.

 

[Haywain]

predictions from court staff about how long the wait could be

It's worth noting that on another thread the time between the statutory declaration and the new hearing date appears to be almost 18 months!

 

[Llanigraham]

Okay so my action plan for Monday is to get my Statutory Declaration sent off and witnessed by a solicitor, and Lodged with my Local Court. Then, I’ll get in touch with the train company and explain a)my lack of correspondence and b)my moving forward w/ the Stat Dec and a desire to reopen the case

No.
You get the Stat Dec witnessed and signed by a solicitor or you then send/give it to the Court where the original hearing was held, which may not be your local Court.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Once received by the court, it should be dealt with fairly quickly. The delay will be in getting the next hearing.

Make sure the SD is sent by Recorded Delivery at a minimum.

 

[B_1603]

What sort of DBS was it? Standard or Enhanced? And in particular, can you tell us which offence you were charged under?

Standard I believe, it was the RORA offence.

No.
You get the Stat Dec witnessed and signed by a solicitor or you then send/give it to the Court where the original hearing was held, which may not be your local Court.

Ah Okay, I see. I'll be sure to lodge this with the court the hearing took place in. Thanks a lot!