Railcards

[222007]

Hi guys

I'm not thinking of any example in particular but as those of us that are train crew know they can be a pain. Personally i wish that when a railcard is being used a system could be in place whereby the railcards number (paper rc's) must be imputted befor the purchase can be made in much the same way as season ticket renewals. This would help with people who don't have railcards. What are your views on this subject?

 

[northwichcat]

I think there could be a timing issue there.

I don't think it would help much with fraud and would mean likely mean more people travel ticketless due to insufficient time for ticket offices to issue tickets.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think there could be a timing issue there.

I don't think it would help much with fraud and would mean likely mean more people travel ticketless due to insufficient time for ticket offices to issue tickets.

Ticket office staff invariably ask to see the railcard already, in my experience. The main problem is with TVMs and online - and TVMs can already deal with photo ID card numbers for selling weekly seasons etc, so requiring a railcard number to be entered would just be a programming change?

 

[Oswyntail]

How about a chip/pin railcard/photocard? Could be linked to all sorts of marketing initiatives, journey analysis etc. Could even be used as a loyalty card type thingie. Programme it so that you can top up the funds on it and buy discounted tickets to that value. All technology tried and tested elsewhere. What possible objection could there be?

 

[northwichcat]

Ticket office staff invariably ask to see the railcard already, in my experience.

Yes they quickly check the expiry date and photo on it. Entering a number from the railcard would take longer.

Also what use would the railcard holder entering the number in a ticket machine do? It would still allow you to buy a ticket using some else's railcard number.

 

[Greenback]

I think the idea is that, as with season tickets, the number would be printed on the actual ticket and would be an added layer of security to ensure that people were not using friends railcards.

I have to say that entering season photocard numbers, either at the ticket window or on train, doesn't seem to add a great deal of time to the transaction at all, based on what I've seen over the last couple of years. I;m also usually asked for my name when I buy a rover ticket, again, that doesn't seem to take any more time than buying a normal ticket, particularly if myd estination is somewhere a bit off the beaten track!

 

[northwichcat]

I think the idea is that, as with season tickets, the number would be printed on the actual ticket and would be an added layer of security to ensure that people were not using friends railcards.

I have to say that entering season photocard numbers, either at the ticket window or on train, doesn't seem to add a great deal of time to the transaction at all, based on what I've seen over the last couple of years. I;m also usually asked for my name when I buy a rover ticket, again, that doesn't seem to take any more time than buying a normal ticket, particularly if myd estination is somewhere a bit off the beaten track!

Presumably the idea behind a number on a season ticket is so that it isn't used by different people on different days. Season ticket IDs are free - which would give a high chance of fraud without printing season ticket numbers that correspond with the photo.

Railcard tickets are for one single or return journey so the risk of fraud is much lower to start with, not to mention the cost of the railcard. I imagine there's more fraud with people selling/passing on unmarked used full price tickets than with railcards.

Timing does depend on whether the passenger has the correct change, pays by card etc. Ticket queues are usually long on Monday/Tuesday mornings when a lot of season tickets are bought and only 5 seconds extra per transaction could make a 10 minute ticket queue 13.5 minutes.

You mention unfamilar destinations make the ticket selling process take longer. That's exactly what happens with a lot of 16-25 railcard transactions on Fridays/Saturdays in university towns - people will turn up at say Birmingham New Street ticket office and ask for places like Slaithwaite (pronounced Slough-wit), Burley Park (which people mis-hear as Burnley), Hartford (opposed to Hertford) etc. with a railcard discount.

 

[Greenback]

Presumably the idea behind a number on a season ticket is so that it isn't used by different people on different days. Season ticket IDs are free - which would give a high chance of fraud without printing season ticket numbers that correspond with the photo.

Railcard tickets are for one single or return journey so the risk of fraud is much lower to start with, not to mention the cost of the railcard. I imagine there's more fraud with people selling/passing on unmarked used full price tickets than with railcards.

Timing does depend on whether the passenger has the correct change, pays by card etc. Ticket queues are usually long on Monday/Tuesday mornings when a lot of season tickets are bought and only 5 seconds extra per transaction could make a 10 minute ticket queue 13.5 minutes.

You mention unfamilar destinations make the ticket selling process take longer. That's exactly what happens with a lot of 16-25 railcard transactions on Fridays/Saturdays in university towns - people will turn up at say Birmingham New Street ticket office and ask for places like Slaithwaite (pronounced Slough-wit), Burley Park (which people mis-hear as Burnley), Hartford (opposed to Hertford) etc. with a railcard discount.

You make some good points there! Season ticket issuing is held up as well by longer period tickets where the records have to be updated. In the old days, this was all writtne on to a card, and this still happens at my locla station, presumably as there aren't that many monthly and longer period tickets issued.

However, rail staff do seem to encounter quite a few people with a Y-P discounted ticket who have not got a railcard with them. Some of these are probably genuine, and having to enter anumber on a TVM could help in that they would realise before buying the ticket that they haven't got their railcard. They would then have the choice of going back for the railcard, or paying full price, or just not going that day!

 

[button_boxer]

However, rail staff do seem to encounter quite a few people with a Y-P discounted ticket who have not got a railcard with them. Some of these are probably genuine, and having to enter anumber on a TVM could help in that they would realise before buying the ticket that they haven't got their railcard. They would then have the choice of going back for the railcard, or paying full price, or just not going that day!

It'll act as a check for the less frequent travellers, but people who travel every week or more often will be able to type the number from memory after the first few occasions.

 

[Greenback]

Do you think? I find my memory is reaching overload with all the security codes, pin numbers, phone numbers and passwords I carry around in my head!

 

[northwichcat]

To add in a further bit of confusion on a railcard issued at a ticket office should be checked against the photocard so they'll be a photocard number check as well as a railcard number check.

 

[thelem]

I think it would be a good idea, even if it just asked for an expiry date.

I was unwittingly caught with an expired railcard and got fined more than the cost of my ticket and a new railcard combined, which I thought was a bit much. (what got me most was that the fine was proportional to the cost of the ticket, not the railcard which was the bit that was invalid). Had I been forced to check my railcard when purchasing the ticket I could have renewed it then or bought a non-YP ticket.

When I posted about it on here I didn't get much sympthy, and one or two posters stated that they were more likely to be lenient on a passenger who had bought their ticket at a window than at a vending machine, as it was easier to commit fraud with vending machines.

I think some guards/ticket inspectors need to remember it's the passengers who pay for the trains, and just because they don't have the right ticket doesn't necessarily mean they're trying to avoid paying the correct fare.

 

[CarterUSM]

I think it would be a good idea, even if it just asked for an expiry date.

I was unwittingly caught with an expired railcard and got fined more than the cost of my ticket and a new railcard combined, which I thought was a bit much. (what got me most was that the fine was proportional to the cost of the ticket, not the railcard which was the bit that was invalid). Had I been forced to check my railcard when purchasing the ticket I could have renewed it then or bought a non-YP ticket.

When I posted about it on here I didn't get much sympthy, and one or two posters stated that they were more likely to be lenient on a passenger who had bought their ticket at a window than at a vending machine, as it was easier to commit fraud with vending machines.

I think some guards/ticket inspectors need to remember it's the passengers who pay for the trains, and just because they don't have the right ticket doesn't necessarily mean they're trying to avoid paying the correct fare.

That's a good point mate. What I will say, is that you can generally tell, though not always, when someone is 'at it', the key thing is to deal with each situation as it comes, whilst it is very hard not to pre-judge people, indeed, i'd say it was nigh on impossible given the information your brain processes involuntarily, a calm, collected and professional approach will go a long way. Ah, a perfect world . I will be honest however, I can quote more than a few instances where I think I could've dealt with said instances better, but mistakes teach you, and that is experience.

 

[Greenback]

I think it would be a good idea, even if it just asked for an expiry date.

I was unwittingly caught with an expired railcard and got fined more than the cost of my ticket and a new railcard combined, which I thought was a bit much. (what got me most was that the fine was proportional to the cost of the ticket, not the railcard which was the bit that was invalid). Had I been forced to check my railcard when purchasing the ticket I could have renewed it then or bought a non-YP ticket.

When I posted about it on here I didn't get much sympthy, and one or two posters stated that they were more likely to be lenient on a passenger who had bought their ticket at a window than at a vending machine, as it was easier to commit fraud with vending machines.

I think some guards/ticket inspectors need to remember it's the passengers who pay for the trains, and just because they don't have the right ticket doesn't necessarily mean they're trying to avoid paying the correct fare.

Spot on, I have touched on this before in other threads, staff see far fewer people trying to cheat the system, but those that they do see stick in the mind.

You do see a lot of the 'guilty unless proven innocent' attitude around forums, but I put this down to the influence that the fraud and evasion they do see has on their perception. Sadly, it's very easy, and very human, to get a slightly jaundiced view of the public.

Of course, there are people who try every scam in the book to get away with paying as little (or nothing at all) as they can, but the majority of rail travellers are generally honest men and women to whom evading the fare is akin to being called a shoplifter - shameful and humiliating! It also works the other way. As customers we don't really notice the majority of staff that are efficient, polite and hard working. But when we meet one who makes a mistake, we remember that too!

 

[tony_mac]

It would be a bit of a nuisance buying tickets in advance when you haven't got the railcard yet. I need to renew mine at the station, so I would have to make a special trip to do it before ordering tickets, which could be weeks before I actually need it.

Still, at least it would mean that it is consistent. Being able to buy tickets at the machine or online but not at the counter is a bit daft.

A magnetic strip on the railcard that could be read by the machine would be quicker than entering the number. I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to implement! Although some places seem to have a woefully inadequate number of ticket machines anyway (Bristol Temple Meads springs to mind).