Scotrail Inverness & Aberdeen HST timetable

[Highland37]

I know that there are alternate departures from Inverness to Edinburgh and Glasgow each hour but I am not sure about Aberdeen. The same I presume.

Given that the long sections of single track make recovering time very hard even with the current less intensive timetable, how achievable will the new timetable be with then HSTs?

 

[Clansman]

As far as it stands they will remain the same frequency. However, there will be new local services from Montrose to Inverurie and Kingussie to Elgin, so the busiest places along the line will see a service increase on the whole.

 

[GusB]

As far as it stands they will remain the same frequency. However, there will be new local services from Montrose to Inverurie and Kingussie to Elgin, so the busiest places along the line will see a service increase on the whole.

How far along are the plans for re-doubling track between Aberdeen and Inverurie? Do these new services use the track as it exists, or depend on the infrastructure improvements?

 

[47271]

How far along are the plans for re-doubling track between Aberdeen and Inverurie? Do these new services use the track as it exists, or depend on the infrastructure improvements?

What does depend on doubling is reopening Kintore station, and as far as I can see that's down for 2019 at the earliest.

So they're going to need to run the HSTs before route upgrades are complete.

As an aside, I'd suggest that Aberdeen City Council need to get their finger out and start to promote other station openings between the city and Dyce once doubling is complete. The six miles is densely populated, peak traffic on the A96 is grim, and AWPR and Haudagain improvements won't do that much to ease the load on radial routes.

We'll see: this is Aberdeen and they find public transport to be a subject of little interest.

 

[Clansman]

For a city and surrounding areas with a population of ~250,000-300,000 - Aberdeen's rail network is a disgrace. Not enough stations in perfectly viable locations and single track through the heart of some of the most populated communities in the City.

1 station reopening in 10 years for an area with that population, yet the Borders was fully reopened in that time with half the population, spanning its extended network. Aberdeen City Council in a nutshell folks.

Let's just say the HSTs and local services will prove to be operational nightmares in the event of delays between Inverurie and Aberdeen.

 

[GusB]

I spent a fair chunk of my life living in Aberdeen, latterly having to commute to Dyce for work. Fortunately my shifts meant that I avoided the peaks, and not having to drive was a bonus.

I'm not an expert in these matters, but I worked for one of the larger taxi companies in Aberdeen and one of the biggest problems we had was that at certain times of day we had a surplus of cars at one end (the airport), and a surplus of unfulfilled jobs at the other end of the city (Altens Industrial Estate). No driver was willing to travel back across town through traffic empty handed. Surely some kind of rail link would be beneficial.

I can't remember the sources, but I recall that the Ellon-Aberdeen rail link was deemed to be economically unviable. I'm not so sure. Maybe a heavy rail link isn't warranted, but a light-rail scheme for Aberdeen wouldn't be entirely stupid.

Does the harbour branch get much use these days? I got the fright of my life one morning when the weedkilling train travelled along a branch that I thought had been long closed!

 

[Clansman]

I spent a fair chunk of my life living in Aberdeen, latterly having to commute to Dyce for work. Fortunately my shifts meant that I avoided the peaks, and not having to drive was a bonus.

I'm not an expert in these matters, but I worked for one of the larger taxi companies in Aberdeen and one of the biggest problems we had was that at certain times of day we had a surplus of cars at one end (the airport), and a surplus of unfulfilled jobs at the other end of the city (Altens Industrial Estate). No driver was willing to travel back across town through traffic empty handed. Surely some kind of rail link would be beneficial.

I can't remember the sources, but I recall that the Ellon-Aberdeen rail link was deemed to be economically unviable. I'm not so sure. Maybe a heavy rail link isn't warranted, but a light-rail scheme for Aberdeen wouldn't be entirely stupid.

Economically unviable for Aberdeen to Ellon? The planners should really be focusing on Peterhead if they're even thinking on a line to Ellon. If the likes of the Far North Line and West Highland line were scrapped under the Beeching cuts, they'd be deemed economically unviable also. Sadly we live in a country where everything has to make a profit - beneficial to the public or not.

Much of Aberdeen's axed rail networks can still be seen in Google Earth - a lot of where the line to Banchory used to be remains majorly untouched in terms of housing etc - just country roads and paths.

The thing with a light rail network is that sure it'd cover a lot of Aberdeen's communities, but at the end of the day the area is really spread out (5-15 miles), so a light rail system would be as expensive (possibly more) than constructing an extension to the main heavy rail network into Aberdeen from both the North and South ends.

After the Edinburgh tram fiasco, now is not the time for another divisive tram network

 

[GusB]

Economically unviable for Aberdeen to Ellon? The planners should really be focusing on Peterhead if they're even thinking on a line to Ellon. If the likes of the Far North Line and West Highland line were scrapped under the Beeching cuts, they'd be deemed economically unviable also. Sadly we live in a country where everything has to make a profit - beneficial to the public or not.

Much of Aberdeen's axed rail networks can still be seen in Google Earth - a lot of where the line to Banchory used to be remains majorly untouched in terms of housing etc - just country roads and paths.

The thing with a light rail network is that sure it'd cover a lot of Aberdeen's communities, but at the end of the day the area is really spread out (5-15 miles), so a light rail system would be as expensive (possibly more) than constructing an extension to the main heavy rail network into Aberdeen from both the North and South ends.

After the Edinburgh tram fiasco, now is not the time for another divisive tram network

The line to Banchory is one that might benefit from a light rail network. As you say, the line remains largely untouched (isn't is a walkway/cycle path these days?). It needn't go out as far as Banchory, though - a tram scheme as far as Culter, perhaps?

 

[Clansman]

The line to Banchory is one that might benefit from a light rail network. As you say, the line remains largely untouched (isn't is a walkway/cycle path these days?). It needn't go out as far as Banchory, though - a tram scheme as far as Culter, perhaps?

The thing is by the time you lay the track and manoeuvre it around to try and get into the city centre, not to mention the overhead wires - you could've easily of built a single diesel track line out to Peterculter and indeed Banchory on the site of the original route. Aberdeen is too congested for a rail network to run through the heart, so any light rail network would be best catered for the whole city, rather than just exclusively to Peterculter.

After the Glasgow Subway extension thread, I'm surprised a similar proposal hasn't been mentioned for Aberdeen and it's urban areas

EDIT: Just realised "light rail" applies to third rail also, rather than trams. An interesting idea that is actually, now that you've mentioned it. A tonne of money for it but perhaps it's what Aberdeen needs to alleviate it's cr*p public transport, particularly in the wider urban areas like Mastrick and Northfield etc. After all, the Glasgow subway serves an area around the same figure as Aberdeen's wider areas such as those stated.

 

[GusB]

EDIT: Just realised "light rail" applies to third rail also, rather than trams. An interesting idea that is actually, now that you've mentioned it. A tonne of money for it but perhaps it's what Aberdeen needs to alleviate it's cr*p public transport, particularly in the wider urban areas like Mastrick and Northfield etc. After all, the Glasgow subway serves an area around the same figure as Aberdeen's wider areas such as those stated.

There's no money in Mastrick and Northfield. They'll probably have to make do with the bus.

 

[me123]

For a city and surrounding areas with a population of ~250,000-300,000 - Aberdeen's rail network is a disgrace. Not enough stations in perfectly viable locations and single track through the heart of some of the most populated communities in the City.

Aberdonians love nothing more than a good moan, and there's nothing they love to moan about more than how they've got a raw deal. So it'll suit them perfectly to have sub-par transport infrastructure. It really is terrible trying to get around in Aberdeen - the infrastructure is completely inadequate and the bus companies are particularly poor.

But, try and fix the problem and I can assure you that you will face a wall of NIMBY-ism. As I've said, Aberdonians love nothing more than to whinge and the prospect of spending money on infrastructure improvements (not to mention the disruption that said improvements will cost) will just rile them up even more. Look at the AWPR - an essential piece of infrastructure delayed many years by the arrogance of the locals.

There are no real options in Aberdeen. It should have a better rail network and better infrastructure in the city centre but it'll never happen. Aberdeen City Council are beyond useless and the locals will oppose just about anything. Even if anything does happen, it will be lambasted as being insufficient. Probably not worth wasting time and money on Aberdeen.

 

[Clansman]

There's no money in Mastrick and Northfield. They'll probably have to make do with the bus.

Aberdonians love nothing more than a good moan, and there's nothing they love to moan about more than how they've got a raw deal. So it'll suit them perfectly to have sub-par transport infrastructure. It really is terrible trying to get around in Aberdeen - the infrastructure is completely inadequate and the bus companies are particularly poor.

But, try and fix the problem and I can assure you that you will face a wall of NIMBY-ism. As I've said, Aberdonians love nothing more than to whinge and the prospect of spending money on infrastructure improvements (not to mention the disruption that said improvements will cost) will just rile them up even more. Look at the AWPR - an essential piece of infrastructure delayed many years by the arrogance of the locals.

There are no real options in Aberdeen. It should have a better rail network and better infrastructure in the city centre but it'll never happen. Aberdeen City Council are beyond useless and the locals will oppose just about anything. Even if anything does happen, it will be lambasted as being insufficient. Probably not worth wasting time and money on Aberdeen.

Have to agree with yous both on this.

Aberdeen is too crowded now for any decent extensions of it's rail network through the heart of the city. Even light rail, although a bold idea, wouldn't work out in the end end and will definitley never happen.

The best option for Aberdeen now is to reopen a few stations along existing lines - 7 locations come to mind:
Newtonhill
Cove
Kittybrewster
Tillydrone & Woodside
Northfield
Bucksburn
Kintore (aren't they're already doing this for 2019?)

...to connect up with these areas to at least enhance the connectivity into the city and to ease the road congestion.

 

[47271]

Have to agree with yous both on this.

Aberdeen is too crowded now for any decent extensions of it's rail network through the heart of the city. Even light rail, although a bold idea, wouldn't work out in the end end and will definitley never happen.

The best option for Aberdeen now is to reopen a few stations along existing lines - 7 locations come to mind:
Newtonhill
Cove
Kittybrewster
Tillydrone & Woodside
Northfield
Bucksburn
Kintore (aren't they're already doing this for 2019?)

...to connect up with these areas to at least enhance the connectivity into the city and to ease the road congestion.

All good for me apart from Northfield? It isn't anywhere near a railway line - it's right on top of the hill by Anderson Drive and is where the big transmitter is?! Do you mean Scatterburn, that's where the present A90 crosses the Inverness railway?

This thread has gone seriously off topic and it's my fault for bringing up Kintore in the first place, sorry...

 

[Clansman]

All good for me apart from Northfield? It isn't anywhere near a railway line - it's right on top of the hill by Anderson Drive and is where the big transmitter is?! Do you mean Scatterburn, that's where the present A90 crosses the Inverness railway?

This thread has gone seriously off topic and it's my fault for bringing up Kintore in the first place, sorry...

I thought Northfield was the whole scheme to the left of North Anderson Drive, with Woodside on the right? I could be wrong though. I've got close family from Aberdeen so my knowledge is partial to say the least. It possibly could be Scatterburn. I was more thinking of Auchmill Road, where the A90 crosses the line like you said, as the location for "Northfield".

This thread has gone seriously off topic and it's my fault for bringing up Kintore in the first place, sorry...

Right enough lol. I reckon the mod squad should put this in its own thread as it's an interesting topic in itself to discuss. Whether or not it should be separate from the "£170m for Inverness and Aberdeen" one, is up to the mods - although I'd say Aberdeen itself merrits it's own thread.

 

[ld0595]

How far along are the plans for re-doubling track between Aberdeen and Inverurie? Do these new services use the track as it exists, or depend on the infrastructure improvements?

The Aberdeen to Inverness improvement project Twitter feed is a good source to track the progress. Their feed suggests that the new station and passing loop at Forres will be open in October. Not really sure about the redoubling between Aberdeen and Inverurie though.

As far as the timetable goes - I believe the Intercity services will stay similar to what they are like now with the exception of the Highland main line 1tph. However, these will be supplemented between hourly local services between Montrose and Inverurie, Elgin and Inverness etc. I recall reading a while back (although not sure if I remember it correctly) that the ambition was to eventually increase the Aberdeen to Inverurie service eventually to 4tph once redoubling was complete.

 

[Bodiddly]

The Aberdeen to Inverness improvement project Twitter feed is a good source to track the progress. Their feed suggests that the new station and passing loop at Forres will be open in October. Not really sure about the redoubling between Aberdeen and Inverurie though.

As far as the timetable goes - I believe the Intercity services will stay similar to what they are like now with the exception of the Highland main line 1tph. However, these will be supplemented between hourly local services between Montrose and Inverurie, Elgin and Inverness etc. I recall reading a while back (although not sure if I remember it correctly) that the ambition was to eventually increase the Aberdeen to Inverurie service eventually to 4tph once redoubling was complete.

In an Utopian universe we could see an Aviemore to Elgin stopper with new stations built at Smithton, University/ Retail Park, and Dalcross ( for Tornagrain) add to this a new chord from the Highland line down to the existing Aberdeen line to close Raigmore level crossing. This could be done with City Deal cash rather than it been wasted on stupid floating observation platforms and Castle extensions. Unfortunately though, we suffer from the same ineptitude of councillors at this end of the line as well. Public transport is way down the list of priorities in the Highlands.

 

[47271]

I've asked for this thread to be shifted to the Aberdeen-Inverness £170m one in Infrastructure, it's all good stuff on here but the original topic is peripheral to what's getting discussed.

 

[Clansman]

I've asked for this thread to be shifted to the Aberdeen-Inverness £170m one in Infrastructure, it's all good stuff on here but the original topic is peripheral to what's getting discussed.

I agree. It's an interesting topic to discuss but the wrong place to do it