Service delayed due to a train stopping in the wrong position.

[TUC]

At Todmorden yesterday, (Saturday) the information screen advised that the 1121 to Wigan North Western was 'delayed due to a train stopping in the wrong position'. It eventually departed 28 minutes late.

Does anyone know what happened? The incident looks to have took place at Brighouse, as that is where RTT shows the delay as starting. Was it a case of the train overshooting the platform or something different?

 

[class 9]

The delay appeared to be at Bradley Jn which us before Brighouse, so could have been a points failure or numerous other reasons.
Bit of an odd reason given, but technically it was correct.

 

[voyagerdude220]

A train overshot Brighouse yesterday morning and eventually set back into the Station before continuing it's journey, causing congestion and delays.

 

[physics34]

Strange thing to put on the screens. Couldve used 'operational incident'

 

[XAM2175]

Strange thing to put on the screens. Couldve used 'operational incident'

That earns criticism - not necessarily unfairly - because it can seem evasive. There's a very difficult balance to strike.

 

[Parallel]

I believe the full delay reason is:

679	This train has been delayed by a train not stopping in the correct position at a station

If anyone is interested, a full list of delay reasons is available here.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

This will explain why the Leeds to Wigan NW services were crawling from Bradley Junction to Brighouse on Saturday, possibly to avoid another overshoot.

 

[greatkingrat]

I believe the full delay reason is:

679	This train has been delayed by a train not stopping in the correct position at a station

If anyone is interested, a full list of delay reasons is available here.

Which doesn't always mean an overshoot. It could be a platform where two trains are booked at the same time and the first train stops in the wrong place so there isn't room for the second train.

 

[skyhigh]

This will explain why the Leeds to Wigan NW services were crawling from Bradley Junction to Brighouse on Saturday, possibly to avoid another overshoot.

No...
There was an unrelated signal fault which was causing delays, absolutely nothing to do with the earlier incident.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I believe the full delay reason is:

679	This train has been delayed by a train not stopping in the correct position at a station

If anyone is interested, a full list of delay reasons is available here.

Interestingly, I went to claim DR for an affected journey recently, and the reason given there (which I had certainly never seen before!) was

"An error having being made"

That was a part cancellation, mind, rather than a delay. Perhaps a different list of reasons?



It was a very strange occurrence, and I'd love to know exactly what error had been made (the driver alluded to it when he kicked us off at Tame Bridge) but that, I suspect, is a whole different story.

 

[Parallel]

Interestingly, I went to claim DR for an affected journey recently, and the reason given there (which I had certainly never seen before!) was

"An error having being made"

That was a part cancellation, mind, rather than a delay. Perhaps a different list of reasons?

View attachment 118027

It was a very strange occurrence, and I'd love to know exactly what error had been made (the driver alluded to it when he kicked us off at Tame Bridge) but that, I suspect, is a whole different story.

I believe RTT doesn’t use the industry standard reasons.

 

[endofthetunnel]

OC is the code for a signaller error.

Things as such simple as bad regulating, or forgetting to reset a route and delaying the next train, all the way up to wrong routes and dangerous incidents.

If it resulted in the service being cancelled it was possibly because the error was a kind which required the signaller to be relieved of duty for testing and investigation.

 

[XAM2175]

That was a part cancellation, mind, rather than a delay. Perhaps a different list of reasons?

I believe RTT doesn’t use the industry standard reasons.

Yes, cancellation reasons are shown on a different list:

Delay Attribution Guide - Open Rail Data Wiki

RTT uses a modified set of wordings with the aim of making them somewhat more understandable to 'normal' people, but the actual list is the same.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

OC is the code for a signaller error.

Things as such simple as bad regulating, or forgetting to reset a route and delaying the next train, all the way up to wrong routes and dangerous incidents.

If it resulted in the service being cancelled it was possibly because the error was a kind which required the signaller to be relieved of duty for testing and investigation.

Thanks! Makes sense.
This train was originally supposed to be routed via Tame Bridge Parkway (seems to be a new thing in the latest timetable that Crewe trains go this way) but on that day (with all the disruption from the heat) when we left New Street we were told we would not be stopping at Tame Bridge, so I imagined we would go the regular route. And then... we wound up at Tame Bridge anyway, driver kicked us off, and as he walked past us on the platform said something like "we should not be here..." After a while the train proceeded empty towards Wolves.

There was a great deal of chaos around New Street on the day and it seems like a mistake was indeed made.

I was very grateful that day to a travelling member of train crew who stayed with us on the platform at Tame Bridge Parkway, made some phone calls, and kept us all advised as we waited to be picked up.

Yes, cancellation reasons are shown on a different list:

Delay Attribution Guide - Open Rail Data Wiki

RTT uses a modified set of wordings with the aim of making them somewhat more understandable to 'normal' people, but the actual list is the same.

Really interesting, thanks for posting the links to these lists!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Thanks! Makes sense.
This train was originally supposed to be routed via Tame Bridge Parkway (seems to be a new thing in the latest timetable that Crewe trains go this way) but on that day (with all the disruption from the heat) when we left New Street we were told we would not be stopping at Tame Bridge, so I imagined we would go the regular route. And then... we wound up at Tame Bridge anyway, driver kicked us off, and as he walked past us on the platform said something like "we should not be here..." After a while the train proceeded empty towards Wolves.

There was a great deal of chaos around New Street on the day and it seems like a mistake was indeed made.

I was very grateful that day to a travelling member of train crew who stayed with us on the platform at Tame Bridge Parkway, made some phone calls, and kept us all advised as we waited to be picked up.



Really interesting, thanks for posting the links to these lists!

Ahh yes, I believe 1 train which was meant to go empty into the loop at bescot remained in service and terminated at Tame Bridge. This was because there was no route into New St given Monument Lane and Duddeston areas were blocked at the time.

It went empty back to Wolves as that was where services were starting/terminating at

 

[LAX54]

OC is the code for a signaller error.

Things as such simple as bad regulating, or forgetting to reset a route and delaying the next train, all the way up to wrong routes and dangerous incidents.

If it resulted in the service being cancelled it was possibly because the error was a kind which required the signaller to be relieved of duty for testing and investigation.

Even popping to the loo and you end up delaying a train goes in as 'OC'

 

[Spartacus]

Even popping to the loo and you end up delaying a train goes in as 'OC'

Yeah, it has to be stressed that OC is really signaller actions resulting in a delay rather than error, so will include pretty benign things like going to the loo or workload issues like delaying something in one place while busy dealing with an incident elsewhere.

The one above doesn't look like anything terrible, but forgetting to reroute said train via Smethwick as the guard didn't sign via Darlaston Jn. I'd be also wondering why the message also didn't seem to have got through to the driver until presumably sometime after Perry Barr...

 

[endofthetunnel]

Yes good point - error is the wrong word entirely.
For the above example though, any good LOM/SSM will try to reject an OC for their signallers if they were actively dealing with an incident and didn’t have the workload capacity, and get the resultant delay minutes coded to the initial incident instead.

(LOM - Local Operations Manager
SSM - Shift signalling manager)

 

[londonboi]

Strange thing to put on the screens. Couldve used 'operational incident'

Which tocs have done in the past and people complained about it here saying more information should be provided.

Seems the railways can’t do no right and are dammed if they do and dammed if they don’t.

 

[LAX54]

Yes good point - error is the wrong word entirely.
For the above example though, any good LOM/SSM will try to reject an OC for their signallers if they were actively dealing with an incident and didn’t have the workload capacity, and get the resultant delay minutes coded to the initial incident instead.

(LOM - Local Operations Manager
SSM - Shift signalling manager)

Spent a lot of time trying to re-direct OC's to elsewhere as an SSM,

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Yeah, it has to be stressed that OC is really signaller actions resulting in a delay rather than error, so will include pretty benign things like going to the loo or workload issues like delaying something in one place while busy dealing with an incident elsewhere.

The one above doesn't look like anything terrible, but forgetting to reroute said train via Smethwick as the guard didn't sign via Darlaston Jn. I'd be also wondering why the message also didn't seem to have got through to the driver until presumably sometime after Perry Barr...

That service wasn't due to go via Smethwick. The via Stoke services go Wolverhampton - Heath Town - Perry Barr - Soho now. Unfortunately, Monument Lane was T3 at that time and although staff (both Crewe depot) sign diversionary routes including via Aston, Duddeston had a line block.