Should East-West Rail approach Cambridge from the North?

[richieb1971]

What the benefits of entering Cambridge from the south? Historically most connections face London not away from it. Its a bad decision for me and I'm happy the Cambridge establishment are fighting the southern approach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What the benefits of entering Cambridge from the south? Historically most connections face London not away from it. Its a bad decision for me and I'm happy the Cambridge establishment are fighting the southern approach.

It isn't going to be used to run through services to London, and should not be used in that way, so I'm not clear why that matters?

 

[Ianno87]

What the benefits of entering Cambridge from the south? Historically most connections face London not away from it. Its a bad decision for me and I'm happy the Cambridge establishment are fighting the southern approach.

Connecting directly to Cambridge South station/Biomedical campus, plus the lack of an obvious approach from the north that is clear for a railway alignment.

Who are "the Cambridge establishment" out of interest?

 

[coppercapped]

What the benefits of entering Cambridge from the south? Historically most connections face London not away from it. Its a bad decision for me and I'm happy the Cambridge establishment are fighting the southern approach.

I can seen three reasons:

• The whole point of EWR is to reduce the need to travel via London so facing London at Cambridge rather defeats the object. The single major traffic source and sink south of Cambridge for passengers coming from the Bedford direction is Stansted Airport as London can be reached by other routes to St. Pancras and Kings Cross.
• Cambridge is north of Bedford and a northerly approach to Cambridge would be longer than a southern one
• Some of the original proposals - which may still exist and may possibly be implemented - saw trains extended from Cambridge to Ipswich and Norwich. These would make cross country journeys from the west country, south Wales/Bristol and the Cotswolds/Marches to East Anglia easily possible by avoiding London[1]. Both of these routes require an exit to the north from Cambridge and so a southerly approach from Bedford avoids reversing.

[1] I know such journeys have been excluded from consideration in the EWR TWAO consultations, but it doesn't mean they won't happen after the railway is built.

 

[richieb1971]

The Case for an EWR Cambourne North Station – Cambridge Approaches

cambridgeapproaches.org

By locating the station to the north of the A428, the EWR line would not need to cross the planned A428 expressway between the Black Cat and Caxton Gibbet roundabouts (i.e. to the west of Cambourne) and so dispense with a major design interface which is all too often the cause of significant cost overruns and programme delays.

The environment too would benefit from a north Cambourne station. By integrating the station with the local housing developments, the visual impact could be reduced compared to a station in open countryside....

Although I see a good case for going into Cambridge from the south, I always wanted a northern (facing southbound) approach due to connecting to Stansted. Although I can see i'm going to get the "Just change train" rhetoric.

Going north gives you Ipswich, Norwich, Great Yarmouth?

I will use EWR for westbound destinations from Bedford, but rarely use it eastbound unless its to go to Stansted airport. It sort of annoys me that people from way up north have a direct Stansted connection and we do not. I mean that is just ridiculous.

I guess its a win win situation, just getting the railway complete seems like a miracle.

 

[eMeS]

I last used the "Varsity Line" in around 1960 getting from Cambridge to Manchester. I found humping my case between the two Bedford stations quite tiring. Somehow, I doubt if I'll see it completed in my lifetime.

 

[Steve Harris]

The Case for an EWR Cambourne North Station – Cambridge Approaches

cambridgeapproaches.org

Although I see a good case for going into Cambridge from the south, I always wanted a northern (facing southbound) approach due to connecting to Stansted. Although I can see i'm going to get the "Just change train" rhetoric.

Going north gives you Ipswich, Norwich, Great Yarmouth?

I will use EWR for westbound destinations from Bedford, but rarely use it eastbound unless its to go to Stansted airport. It sort of annoys me that people from way up north have a direct Stansted connection and we do not. I mean that is just ridiculous.

I guess its a win win situation, just getting the railway complete seems like a miracle.

So it's really "the Cambourne establishment" moaning rather than the residents of Cambridge ? Which is rather funny as Cambourne was just farmer's fields not that long ago.

 

[gingerheid]

As a pressure group Cambridge Approaches confuses me. It appears to be anti EWR nimbyism by people who live in villages to the SW of Cambridge dressed as sincere concern for the north of Cambourne. I even get FB ads for them! Ultimately their logo is a crossed out train, and I think this is what best symbolises what they stand for. They're anti EWR [being near them], but as they know everyone is for it they're hiding behind "built it somewhere else instead".

However I'm pretty sure that even if they "got their way" in relation to Cambourne you'd still approach Cambridge from the south anyway?

 

[Roast Veg]

The long term aspiration is and always was to reach Ipswich isn't it? Ipswich council have provided funding at least if I recall correctly.

 

[camflyer]

What the benefits of entering Cambridge from the south? Historically most connections face London not away from it. Its a bad decision for me and I'm happy the Cambridge establishment are fighting the southern approach.

Main reason is that it allows through services to Norwich and Ipswich without reversing.

Secondary reasons including serving Cambridge South which is being designed with it in mind. Cambridge North wasn't.

 

[MarkyT]

At first sight, the 'obvious' northern approach might have been what is now the guided bus alignment, not so ideal in practise though, with its numerous level crossings. That route is clearly taken now, and any thoughts of removing that local transport solution for more of a regional express service is clearly fantasy, so any alternative new northern open fields route would probably have to be an appreciable distance further north, maybe around Milton and Histon, so very circuitous and involving a whole new set of Nimbys! Following the A14 might be possible for the first part to save some distance, but that could be difficult, disruptive and expensive especially negotiating the intersections and still approaching housing and their occupants in places. A southern approach is definitely a good compromise decision and lines up services for eventual extension further east. The new South station could save a few minutes interchanging for Stansted, especially if you manage to catch a connection you would have missed at the main station.

 

[JonathanH]

I always wanted a northern (facing southbound) approach due to connecting to Stansted.

Would you drop the Peterborough (Birmingham) or Norwich service into Stansted to make way for a EWR service?

 

[Bald Rick]

I will use EWR for westbound destinations from Bedford, but rarely use it eastbound unless its to go to Stansted airport. It sort of annoys me that people from way up north have a direct Stansted connection and we do not. I mean that is just ridiculous.

But you do have a direct connection to Luton, unlike people in Peterborough, Cambridge, etc.

 

[HST43257]

They plan to approach from the south for Cambridge South as well as Ipswich/Norwich (as people have said) but I don’t think the Felixstowe freight factor has been mentioned. I would hope that some would be diverted away from the north London line.

 

[D365]

At first sight, the 'obvious' northern approach might have been what is now the guided bus alignment, not so ideal in practise though, with its numerous level crossings. That route is clearly taken now, and any thoughts of removing that local transport solution for more of a regional express service is clearly fantasy, so any alternative new northern open fields route would probably have to be an appreciable distance further north, maybe around Milton and Histon, so very circuitous and involving a whole new set of Nimbys! Following the A14 might be possible for the first part to save some distance, but that could be difficult, disruptive and expensive especially negotiating the intersections and still approaching housing and their occupants in places. A southern approach is definitely a good compromise decision and lines up services for eventual extension further east. The new South station could save a few minutes interchanging for Stansted, especially if you manage to catch a connection you would have missed at the main station.

Exactly this. Where would you put it?

Option E was clearly the best and I'm pleased that the vast majority of public who were surveyed did agree.

 

[Bald Rick]

They plan to approach from the south for Cambridge South as well as Ipswich/Norwich (as people have said) but I don’t think the Felixstowe freight factor has been mentioned. I would hope that some would be diverted away from the north London line.

Unlikely, to say the least. Would need some redoubling of the Newmarket line (not planned) and an east to north curve at Bletchley (not planned). The prospect of a half mile long liner squealing round the curve at Coldham Lane at 10mph would sends shivers down any train planners in the Cambridge area.

 

[camflyer]

Unlikely, to say the least. Would need some redoubling of the Newmarket line (not planned) and an east to north curve at Bletchley (not planned). The prospect of a half mile long liner squealing round the curve at Coldham Lane at 10mph would sends shivers down any train planners in the Cambridge area.

Is the tunnel at Newmarket suitable for freight?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is the tunnel at Newmarket suitable for freight?

W8, so cant take the highest boxes except in low wagons.

 

[zwk500]

Is the tunnel at Newmarket suitable for freight?

The line is W8, so would need well wagons and limited height containers for anything ex-Felixstowe. There's a slightly higher chance of ex-King's Lynn/Norwich aggregate/sand trains running via Ely but tbh the only freight that I can see using it would be engineering trains between March and the West/South Coast.

EDIT: @Bald Rick posted at the same time!

 

[Alfie1014]

Unlikely, to say the least. Would need some redoubling of the Newmarket line (not planned) and an east to north curve at Bletchley (not planned). The prospect of a half mile long liner squealing round the curve at Coldham Lane at 10mph would sends shivers down any train planners in the Cambridge area.

Indeed post EWR there will be 24 passenger movements an off peak hour between Cambridge and Cambridge South, slightly more in the peaks, that’s without ECS, freights (mostly engineers trains from Whitemoor), to be pathed around.

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed post EWR there will be 24 passenger movements an off peak hour between Cambridge and Cambridge South, slightly more in the peaks, that’s without ECS, freights (mostly engineers trains from Whitemoor), to be pathed around.

24? I can only get to 10 plus EWR.

Edit: Oh sorry, you mean total both directions.

 

[Alfie1014]

24? I can only get to 10 plus EWR.

Edit: Oh sorry, you mean total both directions.

Yep, 12 in each direction.

 

[gingerheid]

I got another anti EWR FB advert, this time saying it's a conspiracy to have 70 freight trains pass through villages south of Cambs every night.

 

[Ianno87]

I got another anti EWR FB advert, this time saying it's a conspiracy to have 70 freight trains pass through villages south of Cambs every night.

I saw similar from another local group; claiming something like "they want to run freight on EWR, they forecast 70 paths a day from Felixstowe, they're all going to come this way, the line is too full of passenger trains during the day, so they'll all run at night and keep everyone awake".

The number of incorrect logical leaps in the train of thought is quite something.

 

[gingerheid]

It's strange that someone is so anti EWR that they're putting all this effort and resource into misinformation. You wouldn't have thought it was something controversial like the US presidential elections or HS2!

 

[D365]

You wouldn't have thought it was something controversial like the US presidential elections or HS2!

We shouldn’t be building brand new railways when there are so many Beeching lines crying out to be reopened first!

 

[Bletchleyite]

We shouldn’t be building brand new railways when there are so many Beeching lines crying out to be reopened first!

It is a Beeching line; it's just been decided that a new route makes more sense than the original one.

 

[D365]

It is a Beeching line; it's just been decided that a new route makes more sense than the original one.

That’s the joke, that it can’t truly be a Beeching reopening if it doesn’t follow the exact original alignment!

 

[camflyer]

We shouldn’t be building brand new railways when there are so many Beeching lines crying out to be reopened first!

Just because a route was closed decades ago doesn't mean that it makes economic or practical sense to reopen it now. We need to be thinking about where a 21st century railway needs to go now where the Victorians built.

 

[Bald Rick]

You wouldn't have thought it was something controversial like the US presidential elections or HS2!

I know you say this in jest, but the point missed by many many people is that to almost everyone affected there is simply no distinction between a new ‘HS2’ type railway and a new ‘conventional’ railway. If you are going to have a railway constructed in your back garden, or at the end of your road, it simply a ‘new railway’.