Should tram networks, such as Blackpool Trams, use route numbering to differentiate service patterns?

[Mal]

Could the tram routes be numbered as 1 Starr Gate - Fleetwood, 2 North Stn - Fleetwood and 3 North Stn - Starr Gate with trams operating Part Route as needed?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Could the tram routes be numbered as 1 Starr Gate - Fleetwood, 2 North Stn - Fleetwood and 3 North Stn - Starr Gate with trams operating Part Route as needed?

These would interfere with the bus routes, especially the 1, as it shares its number with the bus that takes the same route. Lettering/colour coding them would be a better idea.

 

[davehsug]

1 was the traditional route number for North Station via Dickson Road. Uniquely for Blackpool, some of the double indicator cars ran with "1" in one window and the destination in the other.

 

[trainmananthon]

These would interfere with the bus routes, especially the 1, as it shares its number with the bus that takes the same route. Lettering/colour coding them would be a better idea.

I like the idea of having the routes separately coloured - a little bit like Sheffield. I could see that working.

At the moment all trams run on route letters for example today I worked routes B and G. This idea does also work but as trams interwork to different destinations (eg route G I did a Little Bispham followed by a Fleetwood) it'd probably have to be made so the trams stick to operating the same service all day, otherwise it'll start causing confusion

 

[py_megapixel]

I like the idea of having the routes separately coloured - a little bit like Sheffield. I could see that working.

At the moment all trams run on route letters for example today I worked routes B and G. This idea does also work but as trams interwork to different destinations (eg route G I did a Little Bispham followed by a Fleetwood) it'd probably have to be made so the trams stick to operating the same service all day, otherwise it'll start causing confusion

Are the letters used on public-facing information in Blackpool?

It's a bugbear of mine that of the tramways in Britain, only Sheffield actually bothers use any identification of the route other than the destination. You can get away with that in Birmingham and Edinburgh because it's just a single line, but in Nottingham, Croydon and especially Manchester (where the services don't even share a single central core) it gets a bit ridiculous.

 

[trainmananthon]

Are the letters used on public-facing information in Blackpool?

At the moment no, but again you can get away with it as for the moment it's only 1 route.

 

[Busaholic]

Are the letters used on public-facing information in Blackpool?

It's a bugbear of mine that of the tramways in Britain, only Sheffield actually bothers use any identification of the route other than the destination. You can get away with that in Birmingham and Edinburgh because it's just a single line, but in Nottingham, Croydon and especially Manchester (where the services don't even share a single central core) it gets a bit ridiculous.

In the case of Croydon. it was a deliberate decision taken almost two decades after the opening, and with no further additions to the network, to scrap the four (initially three) route numbers, to enable some flexibility both in times of disruption and at times of the day when rigidity could be counter-productive. Personally, I can see both sides of the argument in Croydon's case, but not necessarily with Manchester's.

 

[py_megapixel]

In the case of Croydon. it was a deliberate decision taken almost two decades after the opening, and with no further additions to the network, to scrap the four (initially three) route numbers, to enable some flexibility both in times of disruption and at times of the day when rigidity could be counter-productive. Personally, I can see both sides of the argument in Croydon's case, but not necessarily with Manchester's.

That's a reasonable point.

I suppose in Manchester it's very rare, possibly entirely unheard-of, that they change the pairings (unless terminated short, services that come in from Didsbury always go out towards Shaw and Rochdale for example, even in times of disruption) - and if they ever did, they could in theory get away with fudging it by changing route numbers in the city centre.

 

[LOL The Irony]

What bearing does the running of Manchester and Croydon systems have on the significantly smaller and easier to get your head around Blackpool system?

It's comparing apples and oranges.

 

[philthetube]

I like the idea of having the routes separately coloured - a little bit like Sheffield. I could see that working.

At the moment all trams run on route letters for example today I worked routes B and G. This idea does also work but as trams interwork to different destinations (eg route G I did a Little Bispham followed by a Fleetwood) it'd probably have to be made so the trams stick to operating the same service all day, otherwise it'll start causing confusion

Although these are referred as route numbers on Blackpool trams they are actually vehicle running numbers, they have no relevance to where the tram goes A is the first out of the depot in the morning followed by B then C etc.

 

[507 001]

Manchester does not need route numbers/letters/colours.

 

[py_megapixel]

Manchester does not need route numbers/letters/colours.

In your opinion.

(FWIW it actually has them, or at least did at one point - they just aren't used on the front of trams for some reason!)

 

[507 001]

In your opinion.

(FWIW it actually has them, or at least did at one point - they just aren't used on the front of trams for some reason!)

No in the opinion of the vast majority of operations staff and the owning PTE.

The population isn’t illiterate anymore, and the network is pretty linear. Any differences in routing can be taken care of by a simple ‘via’ as is done now.

We don’t have them on the maps any more because they actually caused more confusion than they solved (in terms of following a route on the map) and it was easier to go with a simple coloured line. If you’re not familiar with the system, it isn’t hard to look for the station you want on the map, look at the end point on the map and compare that to the front of the tram. Hundreds of thousands of people manage it every year so why does it need to change?

You could also argue that the vast majority of people don’t actually read what’s on the front (they don’t, you should see how many people try to get on driver training vehicles) and it would therefore be absolutely pointless.

Does Tyne and Wear need route numbers? Or are we adding complication for no purpose.

 

[DanNCL]

Does Tyne and Wear need route numbers? Or are we adding complication for no purpose.

If what you're trying to ask is does it need the route colours then the answer is yes.

 

[Mothball]

No in the opinion of the vast majority of operations staff and the owning PTE.

The population isn’t illiterate anymore, and the network is pretty linear. Any differences in routing can be taken care of by a simple ‘via’ as is done now.

That's all well and good as long as trams are running to the terminus. While I was in the City the other day, in the space of a couple of hours I saw 2 Trafford Bar's, a Timperley, a Whitefield and a Crumpsall.
If someone could see there intended stop is on lines 1 and 2, regardless of the destination on the screen, a route number at least gives an indication its heading in the right direction.
If someone doesn't know how to get to a stop on the East Didsbury line, and a Timperley rolls in its not so easy to try and find that stop amongst the 99(?) On the map and work out if it's going to take you the wrong way.

It's easy to say it's easy when you know a network, maybe not for people who have never been to a city before.

 

[507 001]

If what you're trying to ask is does it need the route colours then the answer is yes.

They don’t display the route colours on the front of the train though do they? No. They operate exactly the same way we do.

That's all well and good as long as trams are running to the terminus. While I was in the City the other day, in the space of a couple of hours I saw 2 Trafford Bar's, a Timperley, a Whitefield and a Crumpsall.
If someone could see there intended stop is on lines 1 and 2, regardless of the destination on the screen, a route number at least gives an indication its heading in the right direction.
If someone doesn't know how to get to a stop on the East Didsbury line, and a Timperley rolls in its not so easy to try and find that stop amongst the 99(?) On the map and work out if it's going to take you the wrong way.

It's easy to say it's easy when you know a network, maybe not for people who have never been to a city before.

It’s funny how it never actually seems to be an issue though.

 

[DanNCL]

They don’t display the route colours on the front of the train though do they? No. They operate exactly the same way we do.

Not at present on the current fleet, but the new fleet will display the colours, and the present fleet has also displayed the colours historically. The colours have remained in use throughout both internally and on maps.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I would not say I knew the Manchester tram system, but I've used it 3 times.
I find where I am on the map, I find where I'm going to on the map and then see the ultimate destination and look for a tram with that written on the front. If a tram comes with something else on the front I'll scan the map to see if it's OK for me to get that one. On my first visit I realised I was on the wrong platform and waiting for a tram heading in the wrong direction as a result!
The problem with route numbers or colours is that they don't solve that problem! If I'd seen I needed route 1 or a blue tram, and one turns up, I'll get on it and would be oblivious to the fact I'm heading the wrong way!
If you're going to look at the destination too, just look at that instead.
The problem was the platforms were marked "North bound" & "South bound" or some such at the time & I had no clue where my destination was in relation to the compass. "Trams towards..." is much better!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's a bugbear of mine that of the tramways in Britain, only Sheffield actually bothers use any identification of the route other than the destination. You can get away with that in Birmingham and Edinburgh because it's just a single line, but in Nottingham, Croydon and especially Manchester (where the services don't even share a single central core) it gets a bit ridiculous.

I think that on tram stops in the Manchester Metrolink system, there are information monitors that say which tram service is due next and on the tram, there is a destination board on clear view. Both these items taken together should be enough for most travellers.

 

[CH7997]

I don't think route numbers will happen in Blackpool, certainly not with the current PIS system that's on the vehicles.