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Skipping Lancaster

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kjhskj75

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Does anyone know the reason why most Manchester-Windermere trains miss out Lancaster ?

It means you can't get from Barrow or Leeds to Windermere without changing twice.
 
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Bletchleyite

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It was because of pathing issues because 90mph units were being used. However, now it has gone over to 195s I don't see why the stop can't be reinstated.
 

PHILIPE

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There is some reading on it here:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ervice-stop-at-lancaster.193893/#post-4255853

Pathing issues relating to the use of 75mph stock due to late delivery of 195s. Now the 195s have arrived I suspect this will get fixed at the next timetable change.

It's all about keeping out of the way of Pendo's and 350s.
The through services on/off the Windermere Branch are timed using a 90mph/class158 timing profile as 195s were going to be gradually introduced during the course of the current timetable but the through services are also timed at 90mph/class158 for the Dec2019 timetable as well. So it'll be May2020 at the earliest before the 195s 100mph capability can be exploited.
So the missing out of Lancaster and or the pathing stops (at various locations) will continue for the foreseeable.
 
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Bovverboy

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Does anyone know the reason why most Manchester-Windermere trains miss out Lancaster ?

It means you can't get from Barrow or Leeds to Windermere without changing twice.
There's a good connection for Windermere at Lancaster off the 0453 ex-Barrow, if you were to be up that early. Other than that the best option is changing at Preston, which is another forty minutes travelling, but I can't see that changing twice would ever help. Ex-Leeds, yes, you would have to change twice.
The above applies to Mondays to Fridays, and I haven't checked the opposite direction.
When the WCML platforms at Carnforth were removed, BR's advice for travelling between Carnforth and Windermere was to go by bus!
 
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yorkie

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Presume from Leeds and Bradford you can take the Calder Valley train and change at Preston for Windermere/
yes, or via Manchester https://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?orig=LDS&dest=WDM&odate=20200408&otime=1100&maxres=9&maxch=5

Does anyone know the reason why most Manchester-Windermere trains miss out Lancaster ?

It means you can't get from Barrow or Leeds to Windermere without changing twice.

It can be done, though it is quicker to change twice https://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?orig=BIF&dest=WDM&odate=20200408&otime=1400&maxres=9&maxch=5
 

Mitchell Hurd

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I'm baffled here - I caught the 13:45 from Lancaster to Manchester Oxford Road on the 30/09/19 and it was a 195. I'm guessing this was a 156 before then.

However I'm assuming this was one of a few paths available for the 195's?
 

yorkie

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I'm baffled here - I caught the 13:45 from Lancaster to Manchester Oxford Road on the 30/09/19 ...
Yes, this was mentioned in the other thread:
There's one around 12pm from Preston that does stop ...
I'd imagine they will have been able to slot calls at Lancaster into some paths but not others; it'll depend on what other services are running around that time; don't forget there are freight trains to fit in as well as passenger trains.
 

tbtc

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I'm baffled here - I caught the 13:45 from Lancaster to Manchester Oxford Road on the 30/09/19 and it was a 195. I'm guessing this was a 156 before then.

However I'm assuming this was one of a few paths available for the 195's?

I think its a case of them pathing the service for the slowest stock that might be used - i.e. you can path it for a 75mph DMU (156) or a 90mph DMU (158), and if a 100mph DMU (195) is used then that's great (and it might have longer dwell times, or not be pushed that hard), but that's a lot better than pathing it for a 195 and then finding that the (much overhyped IMHO) "Random Unit Generator" has allocated something else - it's much better to path a train for the worst case scenario (and then run a "faster" unit gently) than path it in the hope that a 100mph unit will always be used, and then in the event of one not being available having to either cancel the service or hit trouble when your "slower" DMU has a 390 breathing down its neck (and then having to pay to compensate the delayed Avanti passengers).

That's why RTT often shows a path is timed for something that is slower than the units that regularly work it (which causes people to wonder why something is timed for e.g. a Pacer when it's normally run by a 158)

Generally speaking, a 195 will be able to run a path timed for a 158 but a 158 can't deputise for a 195 (there are quirks though, like 100mph 170s not being able to cope with 75mph paths because they aren't as good at accelerating!)
 

Bovverboy

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Does anyone know the reason why most Manchester-Windermere trains miss out Lancaster ?
It means you can't get from Barrow or Leeds to Windermere without changing twice.

There's a good connection for Windermere at Lancaster off the 0453 ex-Barrow, if you were to be up that early. Other than that the best option is changing at Preston, which is another forty minutes travelling, but I can't see that changing twice would ever help.

You're right, of course. Contrary to what I said in post #6, above, there's never any time benefit in changing at Preston. I'd overlooked the Oxenholme - Windermere shorts.
 

Jamesrob637

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Isn't there a significant student flow between Manchester and Lancaster too?
 

HSP 2

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Isn't there a significant student flow between Manchester and Lancaster too?
Just had a quick look between 0600 and 2000 over 20 trains from Manchester stop at Lancaster.
A good number of students also travel from Leeds, in the same time span only 7 trains run.
Getting back to Windermere, in the same time span 4 trains run from Manchester with none stopping at Lancaster. Going south its a bit better with 4 trains going to Manchester and two stopping. This could be due to having platform 5 to run them into?
 

Starmill

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It was because of pathing issues because 90mph units were being used. However, now it has gone over to 195s I don't see why the stop can't be reinstated.
Rolling stock with a top speed of 100miles/hour, which had worked these services for more than a decade,
was replaced with Sprinter stock that had a prevailing top speed of 75 miles/hour, and slower acceleration than a Desiro.

The consequences were fairly significant, and unsurprising.

Of course, the line was intended to have been worked by EMUs by now. Instead, more 100mph fast DMUs have been ordered.
 

Starmill

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Isn't there a significant student flow between Manchester and Lancaster too?
In the current working timetable there appear to be 27 services one way and 30 the other, on weekdays, and a further 4 which do not call.

I am sure all will go back to calling, though.
 
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