Snowdon Sherpa Network Changes

[RELL6L]

Mod note: Split from Trawscymru thread

Major changes to the Snowdon Sherpa network including buses from Caernarfon and Bangor to Llanberis and Deinolen / Dirowic - substantial improvements.
Forget everything on the old network, now:
S1 Caernarfon - Llanberis - Betws y Coed hourly PVR3
S2 Bangor - Llanberis - Pen y Pass hourly, alternative journeys via Deinolen PVR3, combined with S1 half hourly Llanberis-Pen y Pass
S3 Beddgelert - Caernarfon hourly, continues hourly via Bethel to Llanrug then alternately back to Caernarfon or on to Deinolen and Dinorwic PVR3
S4 Porthmadog - Beddgelert - Pen y Pass mainly two hourly PVR1 - drivers may interwork with the S1 as the S4 is at Pen y Pass when the S1 passes (both ways)
S5 Nant Peris - Pen y Pass every 30 minutes Sats, Suns and holiday weeks (as old S1), PVR1 when operating
All run by Gwynfor Coaches. Starts earlier and finishes later too.
S3/S4 a bit less frequent on Sundays with some odd inter-working at Beddgelert, otherwise 7 days a week.
That's a PVR of 10-11, replacing the old 83, 85/86, 88, S2, S4, S97 but must be quite an increase. Hope they have the resources.
Assuming it works - hope they have the passengers as it is brilliant. And hope they publicise it for visitors.
Don't forget the is the T10 running through Bangor-Bethesda-Capel Curig- Betws y Coed every 2 hours as well.
Makes a pleasant change to have some good news!

Link:

Bus timetables

Bus timetables

www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ooh, that's good, I've long thought the Sherpa brand was underused. What I would love to see in addition is Swiss style connections (and a high quality interchange facility - on the site of the soon to be demolished Electric Mountain building would be great!) at Llanberis, but even without that's a good start.

 

[Paul55]

Nearest I can get to a relevant thread - Mods please feel free to move - it is clearly publicly funded buses in Wales though...

Major changes to the Snowdon Sherpa network including buses from Caernarfon and Bangor to Llanberis and Deinolen / Dirowic - substantial improvements.
Forget everything on the old network, now:
S1 Caernarfon - Llanberis - Betws y Coed hourly PVR3
S2 Bangor - Llanberis - Pen y Pass hourly, alternative journeys via Deinolen PVR3, combined with S1 half hourly Llanberis-Pen y Pass
S3 Beddgelert - Caernarfon hourly, continues hourly via Bethel to Llanrug then alternately back to Caernarfon or on to Deinolen and Dinorwic PVR3
S4 Porthmadog - Beddgelert - Pen y Pass mainly two hourly PVR1 - drivers may interwork with the S1 as the S4 is at Pen y Pass when the S1 passes (both ways)
S5 Nant Peris - Pen y Pass every 30 minutes Sats, Suns and holiday weeks (as old S1), PVR1 when operating
All run by Gwynfor Coaches. Starts earlier and finishes later too.
S3/S4 a bit less frequent on Sundays with some odd inter-working at Beddgelert, otherwise 7 days a week.
That's a PVR of 10-11, replacing the old 83, 85/86, 88, S2, S4, S97 but must be quite an increase. Hope they have the resources.
Assuming it works - hope they have the passengers as it is brilliant. And hope they publicise it for visitors.
Don't forget the is the T10 running through Bangor-Bethesda-Capel Curig- Betws y Coed every 2 hours as well.
Makes a pleasant change to have some good news!

Link:

Bus timetables

Bus timetables

www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru

This is indeed good news and the planned service upgrade offers improved direct links to the Snowdonia National Park from Bangor and Caernarfon. The revised routes and timetables are due to start from 9th April so they should be in place ahead of the busy Easter weekend.

My one reservation is the failure to provide evening journeys, particularly from Bangor which has the busiest station in North Wales. Train arrivals throughout the evening bring in significant numbers of passengers requiring transport to onward destinations.

Having said this, the scale of improvement to the Sherpa network should not be underestimated. I'm looking forward to trying out the new services on my next trip to visit family in North Wales during the Summer.

 

[Llandudno]

Mod note: Split from Trawscymru thread

Major changes to the Snowdon Sherpa network including buses from Caernarfon and Bangor to Llanberis and Deinolen / Dirowic - substantial improvements.
Forget everything on the old network, now:
S1 Caernarfon - Llanberis - Betws y Coed hourly PVR3
S2 Bangor - Llanberis - Pen y Pass hourly, alternative journeys via Deinolen PVR3, combined with S1 half hourly Llanberis-Pen y Pass
S3 Beddgelert - Caernarfon hourly, continues hourly via Bethel to Llanrug then alternately back to Caernarfon or on to Deinolen and Dinorwic PVR3
S4 Porthmadog - Beddgelert - Pen y Pass mainly two hourly PVR1 - drivers may interwork with the S1 as the S4 is at Pen y Pass when the S1 passes (both ways)
S5 Nant Peris - Pen y Pass every 30 minutes Sats, Suns and holiday weeks (as old S1), PVR1 when operating
All run by Gwynfor Coaches. Starts earlier and finishes later too.
S3/S4 a bit less frequent on Sundays with some odd inter-working at Beddgelert, otherwise 7 days a week.
That's a PVR of 10-11, replacing the old 83, 85/86, 88, S2, S4, S97 but must be quite an increase. Hope they have the resources.
Assuming it works - hope they have the passengers as it is brilliant. And hope they publicise it for visitors.
Don't forget the is the T10 running through Bangor-Bethesda-Capel Curig- Betws y Coed every 2 hours as well.
Makes a pleasant change to have some good news!

Link:

Bus timetables

Bus timetables

www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru

Looks good, I wonder if they will bother actually marketing the service…

Will there be through rail/bus tickets available from the Conwy Valley line or at Bangor station, somehow I doubt it!

It’s interesting to see that rural parts of north Wales will possibly have a more usable network of services than the more heavily populated parts of north Wales ‘served’ commercially by Arriva…

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Ooh, that's good, I've long thought the Sherpa brand was underused. What I would love to see in addition is Swiss style connections (and a high quality interchange facility - on the site of the soon to be demolished Electric Mountain building would be great!) at Llanberis, but even without that's a good start.

Back in the day, a friend expressed considerable surprise at me relying on the connection between routes at Penygwryd eg Llandudno - Llanberis into Llanberis - Beddgelert and beyond. That was when things ran on a regular two-hourly headway.

A better 'interchange' at Penygwryd would be top of my list - as in a basic shelter. Perhaps a nice stone built + with a roof so you can shelter whichever way the weather is blowing, placed on the grass lump between the main road and the bus loop. Second priority would be shelters at Capel Curig. Yet another new interchange at Llanberis would be some way down my list but a bigger shelter with facilities would be useful at the current (fairly modern) location.

It is nice to see the service being improved, I remember when the place was awash with European money and similar things were tried. My complaint then, repeated now, is that for maximum impact in the first year marketing of the improved service ought to have been started last year, or by the new year at the latest, so that people could plan their holidays this year with the knowledge of what service would be available. Also so that, for example, walking magazines would already have had articles / advertisements promoting the service, again to catch those planning ahead.

 

[Llandudno]

Back in the day, a friend expressed considerable surprise at me relying on the connection between routes at Penygwryd eg Llandudno - Llanberis into Llanberis - Beddgelert and beyond. That was when things ran on a regular two-hourly headway.

A better 'interchange' at Penygwryd would be top of my list - as in a basic shelter. Perhaps a nice stone built + with a roof so you can shelter whichever way the weather is blowing, placed on the grass lump between the main road and the bus loop. Second priority would be shelters at Capel Curig. Yet another new interchange at Llanberis would be some way down my list but a bigger shelter with facilities would be useful at the current (fairly modern) location.

It is nice to see the service being improved, I remember when the place was awash with European money and similar things were tried. My complaint then, repeated now, is that for maximum impact in the first year marketing of the improved service ought to have been started last year, or by the new year at the latest, so that people could plan their holidays this year with the knowledge of what service would be available. Also so that, for example, walking magazines would already have had articles / advertisements promoting the service, again to catch those planning ahead.

Marketing of bus services, bus/rail integration and through ticketing in Wales, not a hope!
Mind you it doesn’t happen anywhere else in the UK either!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Marketing of bus services, bus/rail integration and through ticketing in Wales, not a hope!
Mind you it doesn’t happen anywhere else in the UK either!

Things used to be co-ordinated. Progress is the problem!

In the mid 1990's, for the journeys mentioned, I used a Rail Rover (Coast & Peaks) which was also valid on most bus services. The buses were branded 'Bus Gwynedd' carrying the operators livery but with a uniform red front. For a timetable there was a single fold out leaflet with detailed bus timetables for all routes in Gwynedd, a mix of full and summary rail timetables and a decent route map. True it was a bit unwieldy and even then I found the print size difficult.

A rail ticket to stations on the Blaenau Ffestiniog line was also valid on the bus (X84, 19) and there was a day rover ticket valid on both bus and train. One or both may still exist.

Through ticketing to other destinations eg Bangor to Llanberis would be useful but, personally, it is the convenience of connection which matters most. That is a bus stop close to the station and either a bus close to the time of the train or a sufficiently frequent service for that not to matter.

The last bus from Bangor to Llanberis on the new S2 (1740) does seem to be too early for those arriving, say, on a Friday evening for the weekend. Three evening journeys seem to have been removed. Things have not been the same since KMP operated the 86 and 88!

 

[Statto]

Things used to be co-ordinated. Progress is the problem!

In the mid 1990's, for the journeys mentioned, I used a Rail Rover (Coast & Peaks) which was also valid on most bus services. The buses were branded 'Bus Gwynedd' carrying the operators livery but with a uniform red front. For a timetable there was a single fold out leaflet with detailed bus timetables for all routes in Gwynedd, a mix of full and summary rail timetables and a decent route map. True it was a bit unwieldy and even then I found the print size difficult.

A rail ticket to stations on the Blaenau Ffestiniog line was also valid on the bus (X84, 19) and there was a day rover ticket valid on both bus and train. One or both may still exist.

Through ticketing to other destinations eg Bangor to Llanberis would be useful but, personally, it is the convenience of connection which matters most. That is a bus stop close to the station and either a bus close to the time of the train or a sufficiently frequent service for that not to matter.

The last bus from Bangor to Llanberis on the new S2 (1740) does seem to be too early for those arriving, say, on a Friday evening for the weekend. Three evening journeys seem to have been removed. Things have not been the same since KMP operated the 86 and 88!

There still is a day rover ticket valid on bus & train, now called North Wales Rover, you can get a railcard discount on the all zones ticket

North Wales Rover | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2021-01/2021-14477-North-Wales-leaflet-2021-WEB-English.pdf

 

[ChrisC]

There still is a day rover ticket valid on bus & train, now called North Wales Rover, you can get a railcard discount on the all zones ticket

North Wales Rover | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2021-01/2021-14477-North-Wales-leaflet-2021-WEB-English.pdf

There is but it can work out very expensive just for one day of travelling over a number of zones.

The real disappointment these last few years has been the lack of smaller bus companies accepting the 4 Days in 8 Explore Wales Passes. This used to be a fantastic ticket when it was accepted on all buses like the Day Rover still is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The North and Mid Wales Day Ranger was a big loss - valid on the Cambrian and everything north of it, plus buses and the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland as well! Though getting bus drivers to accept it was often difficult.

Edit: The North Wales Rover mentioned below does not have validity on these two, which is a fairly significant difference.

 

[Llandudno]

There still is a day rover ticket valid on bus & train, now called North Wales Rover, you can get a railcard discount on the all zones ticket

North Wales Rover | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2021-01/2021-14477-North-Wales-leaflet-2021-WEB-English.pdf

There is, it’s a decent ticket, shame no one knows about it, least of all many bus drivers and train staff..!

If you attempt to buy one and every time you present the ticket to customer facing staff, make sure you have a copy of the T&Cs with you on your mobile.

Or you could take a copy of the up to date leaflet promoting the ticket - oh wait, there isn’t one!

 

[Statto]

The North and Mid Wales Day Ranger was a big loss - valid on the Cambrian and everything north of it, plus buses and the FfR and WHR as well! Though getting bus drivers to accept it was often difficult.

That's now North Wales Rover, which has the same validity area, including the Cambrian line to Shrewsbury as the North & Mid Wales Day Rover had

There is, it’s a decent ticket, shame no one knows about it, least of all many bus drivers and train staff..!

If you attempt to buy one and every time you present the ticket to customer facing staff, make sure you have a copy of the T&Cs with you on your mobile.

Or you could take a copy of the up to date leaflet promoting the ticket - oh wait, there isn’t one!

I've had no issues using the North Wales Rover on the bus, it's annoying though they have Rail Ranger printed in large capitals on the ticket when brought from stations, even though it's valid on the bus.

It would be nice if operators could put at least a sticker on the bus saying North Wales Rover is valid

There is the new 1bws ticket, think same validity area as the North Wales Rover but miles cheaper at £5.70 for the day

 

[markymark2000]

The issue with these multi modal rail tickets is, as has been pointed out, no one knows about them. It would make much more sense to have a 'North Wales Rail Rover' train ticket with an upgrade or something for passengers with '1Bws' on it as everyone knows what 1Bws is and it's acceptance.

 

[Llandudno]

The issue with these multi modal rail tickets is, as has been pointed out, no one knows about them. It would make much more sense to have a 'North Wales Rail Rover' train ticket with an upgrade or something for passengers with '1Bws' on it as everyone knows what 1Bws is and it's acceptance.

Absolutely, it can’t be too difficult surely!

 

[splashoutradio]

By chance, I happened to visit the Gwynedd Council bus timetables page today. It appears that the S5 has already begun running (as of April 2nd), however other routes remain on winter timetables until the 9th.
Cymraeg: https://www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru/cy/T...a-theithio/Amserlenni-bws/Amserlenni-bws.aspx
English: https://www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru/en/R...and-travel/Bus-timetables/Bus-timetables.aspx

As is the norm, Traveline Cymru is displaying outdated information, in relation to this.