Southeastern Accidental Shortfare

[johsmith]

Hi All,

Firstly I would like to start by saying I acknowledge how stupid my actions were but as I will explain below, I was not in a great state on the day of travel as I suffer from epilepsy. I was travelling from Stratford to my parents home as I was worried about having a seizure as I had been feeling quite unwell for the past few days, who are trained if I was to have one. Please bear in mind for those not aware, epilepsy is very unpredictable and when you have a seizure you have no control over your actions, so I was extremely stressed on the day.
I boarded at Stratford where a West Ham game had just finished and there was large crowds and the ticket barriers were open, I did not buy a ticket before getting to the platform as I was not sure which train I would make due to the crowds. I was also struggling to concentrate as I was very anxious about having a seizure especially next to railway tracks.

I got onto the train where I needed to stand for the entire journey which added to the stress, I then arrived at a station 2 away from where I was due to get off and panicked that I had not bought a ticket and tried to backdate it which you obviously cannot do on Trainline so just bought one for the rest of my journey where I genuinely intended to queue for the kiosk and explain the situation. I arrived at my home station and as I exited the ticket was flagged as being short dated and not having been scanned at the station I bought it at (I know I should have explained to staff on the gate before exiting but I was very stressed and there were crowds here also). I was then transferred to a team of revenue people for southeastern who just wanted my ID and for me to explain myself where I explained everything I did above but did not explain my condition as presumed it would not make a difference/was very stressed and distracted at the time and presumed they would just make me pay a fine before I went on my way. Before I explained the above I tried to call my mum to explain what happened as she was stressed that something had happened to me as I had not exited the station yet but the ticket inspector was tapping his watch and saying we get people like you all the time, can you get off the phone. He was extremely rude and also insistent he could take photos of my ID and Trainline account, curious as to whether he can?

I was using Trainline and this is my first time 'short faring' there's around 100 journeys on my Trainline account all of which are paid in full there are five 1 station journeys which are legitimate but are Southeastern just going to presume these are also short faring?

I really wish to settle this out of court so want to write whatever Southeastern want to hear, so is it best to just apologise for the incident and say it will not happen again or explain what actually happened? Also how likely do you think it is Southeastern will settle out of court?

I have attached the letter I received from Southeastern, thank you so much for your help in advance!!

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi All,

Firstly I would like to start by saying I acknowledge how stupid my actions were but as I will explain below, I was not in a great state on the day of travel as I suffer from epilepsy. I was travelling from Stratford to my parents home as I was worried about having a seizure as I had been feeling quite unwell for the past few days, who are trained if I was to have one. Please bear in mind for those not aware, epilepsy is very unpredictable and when you have a seizure you have no control over your actions, so I was extremely stressed on the day.
I boarded at Stratford where a West Ham game had just finished and there was large crowds and the ticket barriers were open, I did not buy a ticket before getting to the platform as I was not sure which train I would make due to the crowds.

What was the end destination of your trip, and which trains did you take?

Do you have a Disabled Railcard?

What relevance does not knowing which train you'd be on have to whether or not you would purchase a ticket? In the London area you either use contactless or just buy anytime or off peak day tickets, they aren't tied to a train.

I then arrived at a station 2 away from where I was due to get off and panicked that I had not bought a ticket and tried to backdate it which you obviously cannot do on Trainline

You don't need to "backdate" tickets, you simply need to purchase one to cover your whole journey, it doesn't matter which train you select in the journey planner. This notwithstanding, they'd have picked up on the late purchase anyway and unless you have a defence in law, you committed an offence the moment you stepped on the train at Stratford under Bylaw 18, and they'd have prosecuted you for that regardless.

I was then transferred to a team of revenue people for southeastern who just wanted my ID and for me to explain myself where I explained everything I did above but did not explain my condition as presumed it would not make a difference

Your condition would be relevant if the ticketing facilities (ticket office or machine) were inaccessible to you at the station where you started your journey, but you do not mention this so assume this does not apply.

He was extremely rude and also insistent he could take photos of my ID and Trainline account, curious as to whether he can?

Yes, they can, but you are not obliged to let them. Your only obligation is to give your name and address.

I was using Trainline and this is my first time 'short faring' there's around 100 journeys on my Trainline account all of which are paid in full there are five 1 station journeys which are legitimate but are Southeastern just going to presume these are also short faring?

They might. Depends which stations are involved really, if they're very close together in the London area (eg: Blackfriars to London Bridge) they would assume short faring unless you can convince them otherwise.

 

[johsmith]

What was the end destination of your trip, and which trains did you take?

Do you have a Disabled Railcard?

What relevance does not knowing which train you'd be on have to whether or not you would purchase a ticket? In the London area you either use contactless or just buy anytime or off peak day tickets, they aren't tied to a train.


You don't need to "backdate" tickets, you simply need to purchase one to cover your whole journey, it doesn't matter which train you select in the journey planner. This notwithstanding, they'd have picked up on the late purchase anyway and unless you have a defence in law, you committed an offence the moment you stepped on the train at Stratford under Bylaw 18, and they'd have prosecuted you for that regardless.


Your condition would be relevant if the ticketing facilities (ticket office or machine) were inaccessible to you at the station where you started your journey, but you do not mention this so assume this does not apply.


Yes, they can, but you are not obliged to let them. Your only obligation is to give your name and address.


They might. Depends which stations are involved really, if they're very close together in the London area (eg: Blackfriars to London Bridge) they would assume short faring unless you can convince them otherwise.

It was from Stratford to a Kent located station, using Southeastern so I was using Trainline to purchase the tickets. And I always presumed when purchasing tickets on Trainline as you have to select the time of train you need to use them for that specific time. Researching after the incident I now know this is not the case so that part was simply me not knowing the ticketing system and that is why I wanted to explain my situation to kiosk staff.

I do not hold a disabled railcard, although I am entitled to one. The reason I explained the situation regarding my condition was simply to hope Southeastern understand this was an honest mistake and give context to the situation.
Thank you for your time and response.

 

[AlterEgo]

It was from Stratford to a Kent located station, using Southeastern

Which one in Kent? It's important.

Did you travel from Stratford, or Stratford International? (these are two different stations - the latter has the direct Highspeed service)

I do not hold a disabled railcard, although I am entitled to one.

You should absolutely get one immediately; the discounts are significant (a third off for you and anyone who travels with you) and holding one does often mean you will be treated with a little more leniency by staff. Why don't you have one if you make 100+ journeys?? No-brainer!

The reason I explained the situation regarding my condition was simply to hope Southeastern understand this was an honest mistake and give context to the situation.
Thank you for your time and response.

Okay, so you can try to explain this - not a problem - and also mention you have purchased a railcard (£54 for three years, very easy to do online too).

 

[johsmith]

Which one in Kent? It's important.

Did you travel from Stratford, or Stratford International? (these are two different stations - the latter has the direct Highspeed service)


You should absolutely get one immediately; the discounts are significant (a third off for you and anyone who travels with you) and holding one does often mean you will be treated with a little more leniency by staff. Why don't you have one if you make 100+ journeys?? No-brainer!


Okay, so you can try to explain this - not a problem - and also mention you have purchased a railcard (£54 for three years, very easy to do online too).

I travelled from Stratford International to Chatham (Kent) using the highspeed service and purchased the ticket from Strood after remembering as explained above.

Thank you just checking them out now and will order one later today! Didn't realise the discount was that good but certainly seems worth it.

Thanks again

 

[Haywain]

The reason I explained the situation regarding my condition was simply to hope Southeastern understand this was an honest mistake and give context to the situation.

I think you will struggle to have them believe that short faring was an "honest mistake" or have them believe that it happened a a result of your epilepsy.

 

[johsmith]

This is the letter I have drafted to respond to Southeastern, interested to know whether I am more likely to receive an out of court settlement through being honest and explain as I have done in the letter or just simply apologising and offering to pay Southeastern's costs? Also, do forum members believe I should seek legal advice at this stage?

Dear Mr Wills,



I am writing in response to your letter that I received regarding the incident on XX April 2025.



On the date of the incident, I travelled from Stratford to Chatham with a ticket that did not cover my full journey. I was returning to my parents’ home because I suffer from epilepsy and had been feeling significantly unwell in the days leading up to the incident. Given the unpredictability and seriousness of my condition, I felt it was safest to be with my parents, who are trained in how to respond if I was to have a medical episode.



When I arrived at Stratford station, it was extremely crowded and the ticket barriers were open due to the West Ham game finishing shortly beforehand. The combination of the large crowd and my heightened anxiety about the risk of having a seizure made it difficult for me to concentrate. I did not purchase a ticket before proceeding to the platform as I was unsure which train I would be able to board and my mind was preoccupied with fears of becoming disorientated or collapsing near the edge of the platform. When I arrived at Strood and realised I had not purchased a ticket, I attempted to purchase a ticket from Stratford retrospectively, but Trainline would not allow this as the train had already departed. In a state of panic, I bought a ticket for the remainder of my journey, with the intention of explaining the situation to kiosk staff and settling the fare difference.



Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologise for my actions on the xx April 2025, for which I feel deep remorse. I understand the role of Southeastern’s Revenue Protection Team and the importance of ensuring fairness for all passengers. While my actions were not made with ill intent, I take full responsibility and deeply regret the situation. I am committed to ensuring that I never travel without holding a valid ticket for my entire journey again.



I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to resolve this matter without the need for court proceedings. I am willing to pay the money owed as well as any reasonable administrative costs Southeastern has incurred in dealing with this incident.



Thank you for taking the time to consider my explanation.

Any advice would be immensely appreciated!

 

[johsmith]

Which one in Kent? It's important.

Did you travel from Stratford, or Stratford International? (these are two different stations - the latter has the direct Highspeed service)


You should absolutely get one immediately; the discounts are significant (a third off for you and anyone who travels with you) and holding one does often mean you will be treated with a little more leniency by staff. Why don't you have one if you make 100+ journeys?? No-brainer!


Okay, so you can try to explain this - not a problem - and also mention you have purchased a railcard (£54 for three years, very easy to do online too).

In the letter would you recommend going for the approach of trying to explain to southeastern what happened and taking responsibility or simply taking responsibility and apologising?

 

[enyoueffsea]

Stratford International has ticket barriers. How did you get through them?

 

[6Gman]

Stratford International has ticket barriers. How did you get through them?

The OP says the barriers were open because of the crowds (football at West Ham).

 

[BAFRA77]

Stratford International has ticket barriers. How did you get through them?

From the OP:

“I boarded at Stratford where a West Ham game had just finished and there was large crowds and the ticket barriers were open,”

 

[enyoueffsea]

Ah, apologies. Not sure why I missed that.

 

[johsmith]

Hi All, thank you so much for your help so far!

Does my letter look acceptable or would the forum recommend any changes?

 

[ikcdab]

I would simply take responsibility, apologise and say you will never do it again. Your reasons that you forgot to buy a ticket are not believable ( at least not to me) and just look like you are making excuses and makes you sound insincere. Apart from that, the letter looks fine.

 

[Titfield]

Hi All, thank you so much for your help so far!

Does my letter look acceptable or would the forum recommend any changes?

A few tidying up suggestions:

Paragraph 4 says "firstly" which is a bit odd given the preceding paragraphs and also there is no "secondly".

You use "opportunity" in consecutive paragraphs (4 and 5).

Delete "reasonable" in the expression "reasonable costs". Its a bit negative in sentiment.

The expression "I am writing" is redundant as it is self-evident. Just say "In response to your letter ......".