The Networkers will be too old by that point. 376s are nearly 15 years younger
If they have cancelled the tender surely that means the opposite?
The tender was for the networker replacement last I knew, if they intend to wait till the 376s are of age then it would be a whole metro fleet replacement similar to GA.
That means by the time 376s are at the end of their lives, Networkers will be around 50 years old. They're life expired already, I doubt the Networkers will last 40 years let alone half a century!
Do they provide any evidence or sources for this?
I think it's more likely that 376s go before life expiry, given they are the smaller fleet and relatively easy to bin off, than get the most out of them and drag the Networkers on longer than they can reasonably survive. They are currently 18-19 years old and I don't see them leaving before aged 25 if they were to go with the Networkers still operating. While this is still earlier than life expiry, EMU fleets have been withdrawn more prematurely than that (unless of course another operator found use for 376s).
They don't, which is partly why I brought it up here, to see if any industry sources can be disclosed that confirm whether or not that quote is linked to this tender notice.
Will they? What is the source that they need significant refurbishment? I thought that the operator's concerns were more around mechanical obsolescence than passenger facilities. Isn't there an ongoing overhaul programme?
Going on one.
That's true especially with the non-Hitachi ones, but it's the passenger complaints that'll be the problem sooner or later - plenty of reliable fleets have been withdrawn with the public hating them, and plenty of comfortable fleets have been withdrawn because of reliability.
There was the Hitachi one a decade ago, which only did a small portion of the fleet and even then wasn't a massive upgrade.
That still makes that your opinion rather than stated fact. Are Southeastern receiving a lot of correspondence from passengers about the state of the Networkers? Would passenger complaints ever genuinely be an issue?
Steve White the managing director has stated on Twitter/X that it's not true. Relevant quotes below:
Other large orders have been two years for an award so it doesn't seem out of the ordinary on face value.
Judging by the text of the tweet triggering White's reply, user MarkL was reading this thread (i.e. it's almost identical to the post I made this weekend).
I just checked and there are 170 networkers in service. That's not happening.
350 to 600 carriages couldn't be covered by 377s from Southern. There are 870 Southern 377 coaches from my calculations, which means if SE got all of the coaches they wanted based on the new tender, Southern would be left with 270 coaches, or just over 67 units. Obviously I doubt 377s will be used for the order, but while a handful of 377s transferring could be useful short-term (assuming 379s are moving to GN, which would start the 387/377 cascade) they wouldn't be needed long-term if there's already a significant new order.
There are a few places which are 10/11 car only. 5 and 6 car Desiro Cities would work rather well.
I severely doubt that when you consider that the Electrostars are going to have at least 3 decades left in them at least knowing society at the moment.
I don't think the 376 electrostars replacement would be part of mega order as only 18-19 years old. I could easily see them be solely used for peak hour extras when new fleet arrives, not regular all day service. Especially if peak becomes just Mon-Thur, with Friday same as Saturday timetable sometime in next few years.
Go on one that isn't the /9s.
Well its not completely out the picture considering the 707s got the boot for 701s alongside older units. The 379s were only 11-12 years old when they got compacted as part of the refurb plan for GA. Both trains considerably better imo than the barebones package the Class 376 offers. Unless they're doing a decent refurb on the 376s(which are also still in Connex colors might I add).
There is already a refurbishment of them about to start, although the extent of it is not known. A repaint is expected into either SE dark blue or a potential new livery*, and the interior is set to be refreshed too, although don't expect any significant changes.
The 710s have the same 20m body as the Networkers and 376s. I can't see Southeastern going for 23m carriages, seeing that even the high speed 395s have 20m ones.
Indeed, the SE network is set up for 20m coaches throughout. 12x20m is ten metres longer than 10x23m, so they'd be losing roughly 10 metres of room, although some space would be taken anyway by the extra gangways of having more coaches in a train.
