Stadler FLIRT windows

[KnobbyGB]

Apologies for the obscure question, but this has been driving me mad for a few weeks and I know SOMEBODY here will know.

I spent a few days travelling around Norwich recently and it was my first time on the FLIRTS. They seem pretty nice (by modern low-bar standards) but I got to thinking about these windows. Does anyone know their purpose?

My first thought was some kind of emergency exit but they can't be. There's no signage or instructions and they only open inwards, which would be dangerous. There's no mechanism to open them in an emergency anyway, just this "triangular" key socket. This is on the inside only and there are no markings or mechanism on the outside. There seems to be one such window in every carriage. They can't possibly be intended for use when the train has passengers onboard and the main doors are much larger so they can't be for getting equipment in and out.

Am I being stupid and missing the obvious? Any ideas?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

I believe they are emergency exits, I think they're shown as one on the carriage diagram by the door

 

[Adlee Turner]

Apologies for the obscure question, but this has been driving me mad for a few weeks and I know SOMEBODY here will know.

I spent a few days travelling around Norwich recently and it was my first time on the FLIRTS. They seem pretty nice (by modern low-bar standards) but I got to thinking about these windows. Does anyone know their purpose?

My first thought was some kind of emergency exit but they can't be. There's no signage or instructions and they only open inwards, which would be dangerous. There's no mechanism to open them in an emergency anyway, just this "triangular" key socket. This is on the inside only and there are no markings or mechanism on the outside. There seems to be one such window in every carriage. They can't possibly be intended for use when the train has passengers onboard and the main doors are much larger so they can't be for getting equipment in and out.

Am I being stupid and missing the obvious? Any ideas?

It’s an emergency window. Located by it will be a box and inside that will be a key that will extend to unlock the window and hold it open for emergency evacuation. We have the exact same ones on our 231s and 756s but only have 2 emergency windows in 231s and 1 in our 756s

 

[Russel]

It’s an emergency window. Located by it will be a box and inside that will be a key that will extend to unlock the window and hold it open for emergency evacuation. We have the exact same ones on our 231s and 756s but only have 2 emergency windows in 231s and 1 in our 756s

Suppose that's somewhat safer than the standard approach involving a hammer!

 

[KnobbyGB]

Yeah thanks, I guess it HAS to be an emergency exit.

It just doesn't seem very safe, that's all. I think a break-glass hammer would be much safer. Imagine there's been an accident, maybe it's dark, maybe the train is no longer upright. You're supposed to find a little key, without any instructions and then hope no deformed parts of the train, injured people, tossed luggage etc. is blocking the window from opening? Or are you supposed to wait for the guard to walk down the train to let you out?

The more I think about it, I reckon it's just a 'box-ticking' exercise to conform to out-of-date rules. I would guess there is some legislation that says there has to be at least TWO exits on each side of each carriage, or something. But the way these units are designed means there's only one central door each side. Since the whole train is fully walk-through with very wide, unobstructed gangways, I think a rule change is what's needed, not some useless exit that nobody will ever use and just adds to maintenance complexity.

Coming from a background where I've had to learn about aviation safety, I'm kind of comparing this to an over-wing exit on an aircraft. Can you imagine a scenario where they were actually locked, had to open with a key, then opened inwards? It'd never happen. Actually that brings up a second question - Are there even any realistic evacuation tests of rail rolling stock during design and safety testing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Point of order - some aircraft exits do open inwards. (Technically pretty much all do in some form as the pressure then acts as a lock).

Is having to find the key different to having to find the hammer? Double glazing is very hard to break without something sharp and hard, that's why you don't hear of the classic football or cricket ball through a window during the school holidays any more - they just bounce off.

 

[aar0]

I think one of the lessons from the GWML HST crashes in the 90s and 00s was that it’s much worse for you as a passenger if the window comes out of the body, as then your body will exit the carriage. Once the train has stopped you’d be incredibly unlucky not to have a period of time to open the window and help/be helped

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think one of the lessons from the GWML HST crashes in the 90s and 00s was that it’s much worse for you as a passenger if the window comes out of the body, as then your body will exit the carriage. Once the train has stopped you’d be incredibly unlucky not to have a period of time to open the window and help/be helped

Yes, there's a big difference between air and train. With air it's about getting people out quickly. With rail that usually isn't what you want because even in a DMU the risk of explosion and fire is much lower, and if people get out quickly they often do dangerous stuff in their panic like wander onto a still active running line, trip over a third rail or walk off a bridge, so may still be better inside the damaged train for a fair period of time.

 

[fgwrich]

I think one of the lessons from the GWML HST crashes in the 90s and 00s was that it’s much worse for you as a passenger if the window comes out of the body, as then your body will exit the carriage. Once the train has stopped you’d be incredibly unlucky not to have a period of time to open the window and help/be helped

This was one of the biggest lessons learnt from Ufton Nervett and along with the binning off of the IC70s, lead to laminated glass windows being installed across all of FGW’s fleet. Laminated glass has two advantages over previous types of window - one is that it doesn’t shatter everywhere showing the interior in small shards of glass, and two in the event of an impact (and relevant forces) will keep the contents of the vehicle inside - the glass sheet has to be peeled open which is much safer than millions of shards of glass everywhere.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Also helps keeps the outside out too. If the coach goes onto it's side, you don't want tonnes of ballast coming in through a failed window at a great rate of knots which has been the cause of many driver fatalities.

 

[Meerkat]

I assume it opens inwards so that it can’t become an obstruction to passing trains, and also there is less likelihood of it being blocked from fully opening inside the train than outside?

 

[dk1]

It has something to do with having only one door per carriage. The entire vehicle doesn’t have to be locked out of use should the door/step be isolated.

Was something we were taught during training on the new fleet. That was almost six years ago now so would need to dig the books out from that time.