Stockport - London stations off peak return questions.

[CHAPS2034]

I am planning a trip from Stockport to London in the near future and will be using an off-peak flexible return ticket with a senior railcard (£68.20) which will show 'Stockport - London Stations'. I am aware that as well as the direct AWC trains, I can use it on the MML via Sheffield, or via Birmingham and Chiltern, or via Reading. I have used all but the latter route in the recent past.

Normally I come home on a Friday using AWC when there are no peak restrictions in the evening from Euston. However a forthcoming trip will probably be a return on a Thursday, when there is a peak restriction from Euston from 1500 to 1900

However on the return trip on Thursday, I am looking at leaving Euston around noon and stopping over in MKC for a few hours before resuming my journey.

My question is, can I pick up one of the AWC trains from MKC back to Stockport which leaves Euston during the peak time when still using the off peak ticket (say the 1824 ex MKC which leaves EUS at 1753)?.

Cheers for any advice.

 

[Watershed]

I am planning a trip from Stockport to London in the near future and will be using an off-peak flexible return ticket with a senior railcard (£68.20) which will show 'Stockport - London Stations'. I am aware that as well as the direct AWC trains, I can use it on the MML via Sheffield, or via Birmingham and Chiltern, or via Reading. I have used all but the latter route in the recent past.

Normally I come home on a Friday using AWC when there are no peak restrictions in the evening from Euston. However a forthcoming trip will probably be a return on a Thursday, when there is a peak restriction from Euston from 1500 to 1900

However on the return trip on Thursday, I am looking at leaving Euston around noon and stopping over in MKC for a few hours before resuming my journey.

My question is, can I pick up one of the AWC trains from MKC back to Stockport which leaves Euston during the peak time when still using the off peak ticket (say the 1824 ex MKC which leaves EUS at 1753)?.

Cheers for any advice.

In short, yes, that's permitted. There's nothing to say that the restrictions apply on a train-wide basis regardless of where you board; the existence of different time restrictions for Milton Keynes specifically makes clear that those are the restrictions for boarding at MKC (and they don't include evening restrictions).

Might just be worthwhile getting some evidence that you actually boarded at MKC if you are checked (e.g. a picture of you next to the platform clock?) in the unlikely event there's a ticket check onboard.

 

[Danieldaniel]

In short, yes, that's permitted. There's nothing to say that the restrictions apply on a train-wide basis regardless of where you board; the existence of different time restrictions for Milton Keynes specifically makes clear that those are the restrictions for boarding at MKC (and they don't include evening restrictions).

Might just be worthwhile getting some evidence that you actually boarded at MKC if you are checked (e.g. a picture of you next to the platform clock?) in the unlikely event there's a ticket check onboard.

In contrary to this, I believe this wouldn’t be permitted.

From what I see regularly, OP will probably have ticket restriction 2C which isn’t valid on trains timed to depart London between 15:00 and 18:44. Whilst you are of course allowed to break your journey somewhere such as MKC, the train was still timed to depart Euston between these hours and so the ticket is therefore invalid?

 

[Watershed]

In contrary to this, I believe this wouldn’t be permitted.

From what I see regularly, OP will probably have ticket restriction 2C which isn’t valid on trains timed to depart London between 15:00 and 18:44. Whilst you are of course allowed to break your journey somewhere such as MKC, the train was still timed to depart Euston between these hours and so the ticket is therefore invalid?

There has been plenty of discussion on this point in previous threads; suffice it to say that the more specific restriction - for Milton Keynes - takes precedence. On regulated fares such as these, the terms of Avanti's agreement with the DfT prohibits them from imposing evening restrictions on boarding trains outside of the 'London area' (which includes Watford, but not Milton Keynes).

A journey planner which allows for additional time to be added to changes (e.g. TrainSplit or the forum's website) would happily validate the OP's intended itinerary, if they'd like to have some 'backup'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On this one I would strongly recommend splitting at MKC rather than buying a through ticket from London. It completely removes any hassle the OP may have (and I reckon they would get hassle), albeit at the expense of meaning they need a train stopping at MKC on the outward journey.

There is very little explicit chapter and verse on how restrictions should apply when breaking or changing unnecessarily, so this one is potentially able to be interpreted either way, and given Avanti being known for being awkward (and being known not to like the way you can avoid Anytime fares using MKC) it is really one I would not try on, or at least not without being willing to pay the excess to Anytime and pursue it back later, potentially via the Courts.

But if the OP is going to do it I would echo the suggestion to get an itinerary for the specific trains they wish to use, as this at least is evidence of a contract.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Thanks for all the answers and suggestions.

As it happens, I've had to change my plans for my forthcoming trip and will be coming back on a Friday now.

But it is quite likely that I may be coming back on a Thursday in the future, so all useful advice.

It never ceases to amaze me how complicated railway ticketing can be!

Cheers