Suggested isolated one-time rail line in Turkey

[Calthrop]

An intriguing oddity noted in an item in a 1950 issue of The Railway Magazine: on a highly-detailed, somewhat confusing, but fascinating map accompanying an (itself highly interesting) account of a rail journey made in 1949, from Haydarpasa [Istanbul] to Baghdad on the Taurus Express. The map shows the whole of Turkey and Syria, plus sections of adjoining countries -- all public rail lines then in traffic, being featured (including much material unrelated to the route of the author's journey).

One particular feature on this map, involves Trabzon: on the Black Sea coast far eastward in Turkey. There is still no rail line today serving Trabzon: this RM map, however, shows a short (perhaps 20 km.?) line running south-westward inland from Trabzon, terminating at a place called Devizlik; with a dotted line -- deducibly indicating a projected rail route -- further inland from that point, ultimately joining the existing west-to-east main line at a point between Erzincan and Erzurum. The inference is that the Trabzon -- Devizlik line was operating for public traffic as at 1949; and my interest was piqued by its being shown as 1050mm gauge: the same gauge as the well-known Hedjaz system.

Have never seen any reference elsewhere to this Trabzon -- Devizlik line: Googling has yielded nothing to me. One makes the inference of the line's having been abandoned a good many decades ago: otherwise -- with many railway enthusiasts having visited Turkey from the 1960s onward -- it would seem virtually certain that it would have been "discovered" and chronicled, by thus-interested parties. I would be most interested in any information about this line, which anyone might be in a position to furnish.

 

[oldman]

I found this reference to a Trebizond-Deizlik line - Source, translated by Google. We seem to have nicked the engines!

The Trabzon - Deizlik Railway

What is best known about this railway is that it was opened in 1914 by a Franco-Belgian company with a gauge of 1050 mm. Benno Bickel reports in "The Hejaz Railway - A German Railway in the Desert" that France received the concession to build an extensive narrow-gauge network on the Black Sea coast in return for agreeing to increase the Ottoman import duties (to finance the Baghdad Railway) - in the middle of the area of influence of the Russian Empire! Until the outbreak of war, however, only the aforementioned branch line was built, and a delivery of three 1'C1 'and E-coupled tank locomotives from La Meuse was intercepted by the English in 1914 and redirected to use in the greater Hadjaz Railway. Their use and their whereabouts in Palestine after 1924 are documented.

Also mentioned in the contents of
Steam in Turkey: An Enthusiasts' Guide to the Steam Locomotives of Turkey. Talbot, E.
Published by The Continental Railway Circle., Harrow. (1981)
ISBN 10: 0950346969ISBN 13: 9780950346960

Listed on Abebooks.

 

[Calthrop]

I never cease to be impressed and delighted by the range and breadth of learning among those who participate on these forums ! Many thanks for the above. This particular line does seem to have been hit by decidedly bad historical timing.

The unfortunate coinciding with the outbreak of World War I; and qualms in the past day or so, regarding the map told of in my OP -- map which first alerted me to this line's existence: have me now wondering, quite how long a working life the line had. (Presumably replacements in some way or shape, were found for the "intercepted and redirected" locos of 1914.) Potential inaccuracies lately spotted by me on the map, concerning other "for-sure" or suspected narrow gauge lines in Turkey; "give pause" as to how well the map's makers in fact knew their stuff. Its showing the Trabzon line as being -- one would infer -- in use in the late 1940s: might, I now feel, not necessarily accurately reflect the facts.

 

[oldman]

It is likely the line ran south down the main valley to what is now Maçka, also known as Tsevislik, which is similar to Devizlik! It's a mining area which was presumably the reason for the line.

The area was badly affected by WW1 and the following years, including Russian occupation and ethnic cleansing/genocide of the Greek and Armenian populations. Recovery would have been slow, if at all.

 

[Calthrop]

The area was badly affected by WW1 and the following years, including Russian occupation and ethnic cleansing/genocide of the Greek and Armenian populations. Recovery would have been slow, if at all.

Much interesting stuff indeed happened in those parts, a century-and-a-bit-more ago; often the wrong kind of "interesting", for those personally involved ! Another element of narrow gauge in that corner of Turkey: the 125 km-odd between Sarikamis and Erzurum, originally built on the 750mm gauge during World War I by the Russians, to further their campaign against the Turkish forces. It is understood that this n/g section was subsequently taken over and run by TCDD, as a link in their west-to-east route to join with the USSR rail system at the Armenian border -- for long, a rather unwieldy and cobbled-together route: 1435mm gauge west of Erzurum; 750mm to Sarikamis; and Russian 1520/4 mm gauge for the succeeding 125 km or so, to link up with the Soviet rail system at Leninakan / Gyumri. All this was rationalised to 1435mm throughout, at some time around the middle part of the 20th century: so far as I can tell, sources differ as to precisely "when and how". My Railway Magazine map, reckonably attempting to depict the situation as at the late 1940s, shows the three-gauges set-up as described above; but as told of, I am now harbouring doubts as to how accurate this map is, overall.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

This Philips map published in 1930 - to show the proposed route of a 'Trans Desert Railway' - also shows the Trabzon railway. I think the base map is actually just post WW1 for it shows the new international boundaries but none of the eastern main-line has been built (finally reaching Erzurum in 1939). It does show, however, the Russian narrow-gauge military railway running west of Erzurum built in 1916.

 

[Calthrop]

Ah, thank you: I think I was aware at some level, that the main line from the west didn't reach Erzurum until relatively late -- as per yours, 1939 -- but that knowledge had become, with me, rather deeply buried. This makes the long persistence of the odd-gauge(s) situation east of Erzurum seem more understandable. Re my mention of differing info from different sources -- I find that the Wiki article on TCDD's Eastern Express states: [as from 1435mm gauge from the west's opening into Erzurum] "by transferring to a broad-gauge train in Erzurum, passengers could travel to Kars, the last Turkish city before the Soviet Union. In 1962, the broad-gauge line Erzurum -- Kars -- Akkaya [this last, presumably the Turkish-side border point] was made standard gauge by the State Railways."

Wiki thus implies that as at 1939, Erzurum -- Sarikamis had been converted from 750mm to 1520/4mm. The Railway Magazine map shows it as still 750mm as at the late 1940s; whereas R.A.S. Hennessy's book on railway matters and events in the Caucasus / far north-east of Turkey, regions, in World War I and shortly after: at least strongly implies, that TCDD converted Erzurum -- Sarikamis from 750mm to 1435mm, as late as 1957 ! It looks like a matter of opinion as to who here, is variously right or wrong...

Thanks for fascinating map, showing an impressive project which sadly, never saw the light of day. Peter Allen tells in his On The Old Lines, of a journey by him in 1952, using the equivalent which did come into being: an interesting but rather arduous overnight trans-desert bus journey from Baghdad to Damascus. He writes: "The express service is run by a giant towing-lorry pulling an eight-wheeled air-conditioned trailer, with three stops, at the frontier posts of Iraq and Syria and at the halfway point at Rutbah Fort."

 

[MarcVD]

What is, on this map above, this railway-looking line going to Nakhichevan over the extreme North West corner of Iran ?

 

[Calthrop]

The late-1940s map from The Railway Magazine, referred to in my earlier posts. (Attempted transmission of it, with assistance of staff at local Internet cafe -- the thing being beyond my minimal computer skills.)


I was meaning to do two separate posts, but the machine thought otherwise ! The hoped-for attachment of map, is at the bottom of this post.

What is, on this map above, this railway-looking line going to Nakhichevan over the extreme North West corner of Iran ?

Googling brought up a short but informative article on this line:

https://www.trainsofturkey.com/index.php/NarrowGauge/DogubayazitRailway

As recently mentioned, I have a bad time with many computer things; should the above link not work: Google "Dogubayazit Railway" -- the first hit will be, "A railway to Dogubayazit?", clicking on which brings one to the article. Briefly -- once again, a Russian World War I undertaking, to better carry on Russia's campaign against Turkey. Built in 1916: in fact, joining the broad-gauge main line at Shakhakty, a little way north-west of Nakhichevan: running, as you say, through a corner of Iran, via the town of Maku -- Russian forces were occupying at that time, the north-west of Iran -- westward on to Dogubayzit, and further west to Agri; with "possibly" per the article, a branch southward from Dogubayazit, to Muradiye near the north-eastern tip of Lake Van.

For this line, the 1067mm (3ft. 6in.) gauge was used; employing much equipment, including locomotives, from the Yaroslavl -- Arkhangelsk line, which had hitherto been on that gauge. The article referred to above, opines that the line was probably abandoned as from the end of World War I. The Railway Magazine late-1940s map shows this railway's routes (some place-names different from the modern ones) as dotted lines, labelled "Lines now closed".

The late-1940s map from The Railway Magazine, referred to in my earlier posts. (Attempted transmission of it, with assistance of staff at local Internet cafe -- the thing being beyond my minimal computer skills.)

I see that the copying has worked; but in a way that has Turkey and neighbouring areas "vertical, not horizontal" as it were. Regrets, re that; but I reckoned it best to take what I could get from the Internet cafe, and not be "that super-annoying customer".

Re above -- everything seems to be getting itself on to the same post; though intended to be done separately ! I don't understand this stuff: bring back the days of monks hand-copying manuscripts !

 

[MarcVD]

Interesting, thank you. It might come back : I heard that such a line is proposed as an alternative to the exiting line to Tabriz via the Van lake ferry. It would require the regauging of rhe line between Nakhichevan and Jolfa, though...

 

[mailbyrail]

The excellent Vol 8 of the World Railway Atlas by Neil Robinson shows the line inland from Trabzon running to Gümüşhane with a date opened of 11/196 and a date closed of 1920
along with the note:
This was part of a 370km project to build a branch from Trabzon to Sarikamis to connect with the 750mm gauge system there. The project is thought to have reached as far as Gümüşhane but this is open to conjecture as certain local Turkish sources claim it ran inland for 20-30km.

 

[oldman]

I found this reference - INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF RUSSIAN STUDIES ISSUE NO. 9 ( 2020/1 )CONNECTING TRABZON TO RUSSIA: BATUMI-TRABZON MILITARY RAILWAY PROJECT (1916-1917)

which says

In this framework, after the occupation of Trabzon, the railway line between Trabzonand Gümüşhane was completed. Furthermore, the line was planned to be extended to Erzincan andalso Erzurum. However, according to Odabaşoğlu, only 35 kilometers of the 119-km length Trabzon-Gümüşhane railway line was in use

and also

Meanwhile, Sarıkamış-Erzurum and Trabzon-Gümüşhane decovil (Decauville) lines were completed.

A Russian source says they laid a military railway (dekovilka) along the Trabzon-Erzerum road as far as Ardas (before Gumushane), partially using an existing Turkish dekovilka (?the French-built railway?). Something like a trench railway by the sound of it.

 

[Calthrop]

The De[acute accent]cauville -- matter: originated from the late-19th-century work of the French manufacturer Paul Decauville and the company bearing his name -- specialising in equipment for often-temporary narrow-gauge light railways, with prefabricated portable sections of track with steel sleepers: most often 600mm gauge, though other gauges used too. The French military adopted "big-time", this means for quick provision of transport: it's thought that it was this, which led to "Decauville" becoming "verbal shorthand" for such rapidly-makeable light railways -- as in post #12 above, the name borrowed / adapted by other countries, irrespective of their relationship with France war-wise !

Thus, the wartime Russian-built Sarikamis -- Erzurum line was, as above, in Russian a "dekovilka"; Turkish "decovil" (though 750mm gauge not 600mm) -- one which, as it happened, lasted for a long time post-WWI. Re the Trabzon line: it would seem that the Russian source may be using "dekovilka" a bit loosely -- as discussed upthread, that line as far as Deizlik / Devizlik (will from now on use the latter spelling), was inaugurated as a "civilian" public railway -- the start of its career unfortunately coinciding with the outbreak of WWI. As we've seen, that section was 1050mm gauge: line's prolongation southward to Gumushane or maybe less far (anyway, planned to go further still) was carried out by the Russians during WWI occupation -- one wonders, on what gauge did they build that part?

The Railway Magazine map is riddled with numerous dotted / dashed lines (unexplained in the map's key !), seemingly denoting railways projected at some stage but, as at the late 1940s, not built; and / or built and opened but subsequently closed. On close inspection, map would seem to show a sort-of-dashed line between Devizlik and Gumushane (= at some stage, opened and in traffic?); then, south of Gumushane, a dotted line -- slightly different configuration -- running to meet the TCDD standard-gauge line (existent in the late 1940s, but not in the WWI era !), at a point between Erzincan and Erzurum -- as per quote in post #12. The map makes no attempt to indicate status of these particular lines; it is a fascinating piece of cartography, but its compilation would seem to have been in certain respects, rather slapdash.



(I intended the paragraphs below, to be a new post on this thread: dated Saturday 29/8 -- but the thing appears to have, unbidden, "automerged" itself. ????????)

I have aired these matters on another rail-related message board on which I participate. A considerable amount of info / thoughts elicited, on Sarikamis -- Erzurum and the west-to-east main line of which it came to form a part. It comes to seem pretty well certain, that Sarikamis -- Erzurum remained 750mm gauge, as part of the Turkish rail system, until 60 / 70 years ago as from now. Even after opening of 1435mm gauge line into Erzurum from the west in 1939: 750mm remained pro tem, from there to Sarikamis; and Russian 1520/4mm gauge from Sarikamis to Kars and the Armenian [Soviet] border -- this latter essentially using ex-Russian locos which had been on hand at the end of World War I. (Suggestion picked up from at least one source [Wiki, as cited by me upthread], that the Turks at some stage converted the 750mm stretch, to Russian broad gauge: seems to be for sure, that this is not so -- the source being itself misinformed; or else expressing itself in a way less than clear, and lending self to misunderstanding? Turkish action to "broad-gauge" this stretch, would seem unlikely and lacking in any easily-seen point; but strange things are sometimes done...)

It seems as clear as may be, that TCDD converted Sarikamis -- Erzurum from 750mm to 1435mm, essentially in the decade of the 1950s: sources not unanimous on dates, but scenario espoused more than any other, would seem to be: Erzurum to Horasan (about half-way to Sarikamis) converted in 1951; Horasan -- Sarikamis, in 1961. In point of fact this operation involved, for a fair amount of the way, construction of actual new formation for the standard-gauge track -- at varying distances from the course of the narrow gauge.

It seems certain that standard-gauging of the Russian-gauge section east of Sarikamis, was done subsequently to standard gauge being laid into Sarikamis (this would be, after all, the logical way in which to proceed); with the entire route having been made over to standard gauge as at the generally-reckoned 1962.

 

[DerekC]

Wow. I had some idea how complicated the history and politics of this part of the world was, but not how it made the railway development so contorted also. Are there any photographs of Trabzon - Devizlik?

 

[Calthrop]

Various postings and exchanges have continued on this subject, on the board which I mention in my post #13 (The Yahoo "Continental Railway Circle" group) -- some highly erudite people there. Much persuasive citation there lately -- culled from French, and Turkish, works -- rather strongly suggesting that the line out of Trabzon, planned as a 1050m gauge "civilian" public line, never in fact ran as such at all: it having been "nipped in the bud" by the outbreak of World War I. Strongly suggested that if any railway was ever inaugurated, and ran, out of Trabzon: it was a Russian military World War I affair, not reaching even at the max, greatly far inland -- though seemingly, as per references upthread, further south than Devizlik. My Railway Magazine late-1940s map does appear -- as discussed upthread -- to be mistaken in a number of particulars: no guarantee that its showing Trabzon -- Devizlik as in traffic on 1050mm at the time of its (the map's) production, had any basis in fact !

Are there any photographs of Trabzon - Devizlik?

From available info: it would seem, none available to Western enthusiasts; and everything would appear anyhow, to be pace what form that entity actually took. There's mention in the Yahoo group correspondence, of a book on the Hedzjaz Railway by Rick Tourret -- a book which I don't know; one gathers that that book, and Bickel's book on the Hedjaz mentioned upthread by @oldman, deal with the locos intended for the Trabzon 1050mm line, but intercepted and used by the Allies; including on parts of the Hedjaz system in areas administered by the victorious powers after the war. It could be, it is felt, that these books include photos of these machines taken in service post-war, as just described; but not operating from Trabzon !

 

[MarcVD]

I own that book, I will check.

 

[etr221]

Various postings and exchanges have continued on this subject, on the board which I mention in my post #13 (The Yahoo "Continental Railway Circle" group) -- some highly erudite people there.

It is now on Groups.io - https://groups.io/g/CRC - new members welcome...

As regards all the proposed lines on the Railway Magazine map: railways were late being built in Ottoman Empire - in particular the Asian part - it was not a rich country, and not one easy to build railways in. After the crisis (crises?) of 1908-23, as the Turkish Republic settled down, Ataturk determined to drag it into the 20th century as a 'modern' country - which meant building railways (and, being a fairly large country, lots of them), so many proposals...

I've done a quick rotate & reduce of the R Mag Turkish map, for convenience...



And for those wondering why 105cm gauge - it was the 'standard' Ottoman narrow gauge, coming about when a line that they had wanted to be standard gauge (one of those in the Levant, can't recall exactly which), the concession actually specified was 'more than one metre'.
(Russian 'standard' n.g. was 75 cm; the metre gauge lines in Mesopotamia/Iraq started being built by the British in WW1, using equipment from India)

 

[MarcVD]

The map shows a Tripoli - Beirut - Haifa line that was only built during the second world War...

 

[Calthrop]

I own that book, I will check.

Appreciated -- thank you. I have a book on the Hedjaz Railway by James Nicholson, published 2005; but it's an overview of the system's history and antecedents -- detailed history-wise; but not dealing with detailed information about motive power and equipment -- certainly not what its author would presumably regard as minutiae outside his remit: such as odd locos originally meant for service elsewhere, which landed up in use on the 1050mm gauge in what became the British Mandate in Palestine...

As regards all the proposed lines on the Railway Magazine map... meant building railways (and, being a fairly large country, lots of them), so many proposals...

I've described the map as fascinating, but flawed in some cases: as regards accuracy concerning lines shown as active; and in clarity re what it shows. This latter, largely because of -- as can now easily be seen on the map -- its extremely inadequate key; which shows four different gauges, and that's absolutely all. (Comically, the key does not include the "2ft. 6in. or close equivalent" symbol: which however appears on the map for Erzurum -- Sarikamis; and for the Cyprus Government Railway -- abandoned 1951, so shown correctly as active as at the late-1940s date of the map.) There are various subtle differences in kinds of dashed-pecked-dotted lines, for sundry rail routes: distinctions perhaps meant thereby re "projected / having once been open for traffic, but now abandoned / 'who knows what?' " No clarification via the key, of this stuff !

I've done a quick rotate & reduce of the R Mag Turkish map, for convenience...

Very many thanks for that: it's what I would have wished to do -- but lacked the necessary skill; and either my Internet cafe guys couldn't do the thing exactly in this way, or I didn't manage to convey to them precisely what I wanted !

The map shows a Tripoli - Beirut - Haifa line that was only built during the second world War...

Map obtained from a number of Britain's Railway Magazine for -- July, I think -- 1950: there for the purpose of accompaniment / reference re a contributor's account of a rail journey by him, Haydarpasa -- Baghdad, in 1949. I therefore construe the map as being supposedly up-to-date for the late 1940s; thus post-World War II, whereby Tripoli -- Beirut -- Haifa correctly shown as in existence. (The map's "country-label" of Palestine, instead of Israel, would suggest a date for it, of 1948 at latest.)

 

[etr221]

Unfortunately the Railway Mag does not give a source or date for the map (or details theron): apart from not marking Israel, it doesn't indicate Lebanon (became a separate country 1944, IIRC).

 

[Calthrop]

Unfortunately the Railway Mag does not give a source or date for the map (or details theron): apart from not marking Israel, it doesn't indicate Lebanon (became a separate country 1944, IIRC).

Re Lebanon -- per quick consulting of Wiki, the country's becoming independent from France's mandate for it, seems to have been a matter of rather complicated ups-and-downs between 1943 and '46: so, trying to date the map from internal evidence... maybe produced late in the war, or very shortly after it; or just possibly, its British makers were not particularly bothered about messy goings-on between the French and their Lebanese and / or Syrian "subjects" ? (It does strike me that the map is, altogether, not a stellar example of meticulous accuracy.)