Suggested timetable for Edinburgh - Glasgow via Shotts

[adrock1976]

Being as the last few comments in the Cathcart Lines conversion to trams thread has ventured out of Glasgow/Strathclyde Region into Lothian Region (see below), I have had a go at creating a more user friendly 30 minute frequency concentrating on the Edinburgh - West Calder section.

I doubt all stations on the Shotts line need 2tph - the least used stations (Hartwood, Briech and Addiewell) would suffice with 1tph. But agree that all other stations between Bellshill and Haymarket should have 2tph. When the 'fast' trains ran on the Shotts line some were almost as slow as the stoppers due to pathing constraints at each end - so I think a half-hourly service calling most stations would work better than 1 fast and 1 stopper. One calling at all stations except CBL and UDD and the other calling all stations except HTW, BRC and ADW - both taking around 80 mins end to end.

Agreed. The fast services in their previous form weren’t necessary and lost an opportunity to provide better services at several stops on the route, the Edinburgh stations especially.

Perhaps what is needed is a return of the fast service to a different departure time to give a faster service end to end times which would attract passengers. They atteacted a good number of passrngers who provably now drive.

Its doubtfull that a second all stations service would attract pqssrngers the journey time are not attractive.

But, like the western side of the Cathcart circle, the suburban stations at the Edinburgh end of the Shotts line badly need a half hourly service to increase usage. Having a half hourly stopping service taking around 80 minutes (which IS possible post electrification) would be comparable to the journey time via Bathgate and would also provide a second viable alternative route when disruption occurs on the main E-G line.

The problem with the Shotts line is that a half-hourly regular interval service cannot operate on a one fast/one slow train basis, as the fast train would catch the slow one long before either terminal was reached!

I think to be able to have a fast service, you would really need at least 3tph Edinburgh to Holytown, with the other Glasgow and a Motherwell/Hamilton service doing all the Edinburgh suburban stops to give them 2tph. You could put Breich and Addiewell on the Motherwell one, but Hartwood might be a harder sell seeing as most traffic will be Glasgow-bound.

Even better would be 4tph, with 2tph Edinburgh to Glasgow semi-fast and 2tph Edinburgh to Livingston South stopping, with 1tph running through to Motherwell or Hamilton.

How about Edinburgh - West Calder all stations every 30 minutes, then 1tph continuing to Glasgow via Bellshill (as per present service calling all or most stations), with the other train every 2 hours to Glasgow via Whifflet, omitting Addiewell, Breich, and Hartwood, with this train in the opposite hour via Motherwell and Hamilton (omitting Addiewell, Breich, and Hartwood)?

I can remember there being "No Sunday Service" on Glasgow - Edinburgh via Shotts (except Glasgow - Shotts via Whifflet every 60 minutes on Sundays in December). Initially, Edinburgh - Fauldhouse (first/last station in Lothian Region) was introduced running every 2 hours. During the intervening years since then, there was a Glasgow - Shotts via Bellshill service introduced running every 2 hours, then were joined up to run straight through end to end.

Dovetailing Shotts line service with Argyle Line services via Hamilton and / or Whifflet seems like a reasonable idea - after all Bathgate services run through to Helensburgh, so there's a precedent for extending suburban services beyond the SPT area. Running slower services via Whifflet or Hamilton would also facilitate running 'overtaking' faster services via Bellshill to supplement the stoppers. However beyond Shotts the services would need to be driver and conductor operated and would have to be operated by newer units with in cab monitors. Maybe something to think about once the 318s / 320s are replaced?

The existing xx:25 from Edinburgh and the xx:17 from Glasgow are the trains that call all stations via Bellshill. Pre pandemic, the limited stop from Edinburgh departed xx:56 calling Haymarket, Livingston South, West Calder, Shotts, Bellshill, and Glasgow. From Glasgow, this departed at xx:07 if my memory is not playing tricks on me. The all stations from Edinburgh would form the limited stop back to Edinburgh, and vice versa.

From the attached file below (.xlsx - I can convert to PDF if need be), I have the xx:56 departing at xx:55, calling all stations to West Calder providing a 30 minute frequency. From the RTT website, I cannot see this getting in the way of the London/Manchester via Preston trains at Midcalder Junction, therefore should be fine. The even hours train departing xx:56 runs via Whifflet, calling Fauldhouse, Shotts, Cleland, Carfin, Holytown, Whifflet, Kirkwood, and Carmyle after West Calder on the way to Glasgow. The odd hours train departing xx:56 runs via Hamilton, calling Fauldhouse, Shotts, Cleland, Carfin, Holytown, Motherwell, Hamilton Central, and Hamilton West on the way to Glasgow after West Calder.

There was a problem I had identified running via Hamilton in the Edinburgh direction, which was the Dalmuir - Motherwell via Hamilton has a layover of 12 minutes in Platform 4 at Motherwell, before returning back to Dalmuir via Hamilton. An easy way to fix this would be to swap the Motherwell terminator with the loop train around in both directions as they are 30 minutes apart. If this were to happen, then there would be no problems in the Edinburgh direction.

 

[Peter0124]

The odd hours train departing xx:56 runs via Hamilton, calling Fauldhouse, Shotts, Cleland, Carfin, Holytown, Motherwell, Hamilton Central, and Hamilton West on the way to Glasgow after West Calder.

Surely this should also call at Blantyre and Newton?

 

[adrock1976]

Surely this should also call at Blantyre and Newton?

I did think about that, but they are already covered by the Central Low Level trains via the loop and the Larkhall trains too, giving 4 tph Central LL - Newton - Hamilton.

 

[Peter0124]

I did think about that, but they are already covered by the Central Low Level trains via the loop and the Larkhall trains too, giving 4 tph Central LL - Newton - Hamilton.

I know but it's more the link with Shotts / Lothian / Edinburgh that Newton should have rather than a faster train to Glasgow. Especially considering the regular Shotts trains bypass Newton on mainlines.

Could also create interchange opportunities at Newton with Cathcart services

 

[alxndr]

I know but it's more the link with Shotts / Lothian / Edinburgh that Newton should have rather than a faster train to Glasgow. Especially considering the regular Shotts trains bypass Newton on mainlines.

Could also create interchange opportunities at Newton with Cathcart services

From a purely selfish point of view it would be nice! Had a trip from Newton to Edinburgh today, changing at Cambuslang and Bellshill and spending 50 minutes this morning faffing around with changes to get to an Edinburgh bound train.

[Yes, I could have got a train out of Queen Street and made it simpler for myself, but it was cheaper and I'd not ticked off that line, Cambuslang or Bellshill yet. In future I'll probably consider driving to Bellshill.]

 

[Peter0124]

From a purely selfish point of view it would be nice! Had a trip from Newton to Edinburgh today, changing at Cambuslang and Bellshill and spending 50 minutes this morning faffing around with changes to get to an Edinburgh bound train.

[Yes, I could have got a train out of Queen Street and made it simpler for myself, but it was cheaper and I'd not ticked off that line, Cambuslang or Bellshill yet. In future I'll probably consider driving to Bellshill.]

My point was also pretty selfish as Newton is my local!

And Indeed there are cheaper (not via Glasgow) fares however with Carstairs closed the only route available is the Shotts line. And getting to that from Newton in particular is a pain in the backside.

Want to go via Cambuslang? Hard luck because the Shotts doesn't stop there either.

 

[drb61]

Want to go via Cambuslang? Hard luck because the Shotts doesn't stop there either.

There seems little reason why they cannot serve Cambuslang again as most did prior to the timetable change in December 2009 when the hourly fast service was introduced. This seemed a rather paradoxical move as there would be less need to speed up the stopper by omitting any stops, if supplemented with an express serving the busiest stations. However with the introduction of the hourly express there were decent connections at Bellshill from Cambuslang and other Argyle Line stations into the express service. Nowadays, however with the Lanark services now running from the high level and very few express services post-Covid, the connection with Argyle Line stations is lost and from Cambuslang you have about 25 minutes to wait at Bellshill for a connection with the stopper. I might be biased as Cambuslang is one of my local stations, but it really needs the hourly stopper to call there again, recognising its importance as an interchange station with the Argyle Line. Whenever I travel to Edinburgh nowadays, I either cycle to Uddingston or Shettleston to catch the train or travel via Queen Street, which incurs a higher fare.

AFAIK, Shotts services have never called at Newton and given the potential for conflicting movements introducing a stop there would be trickier, unless of course they were routed via Hamilton or the main line platforms were reinstated!

 

[Peter0124]

There seems little reason why they cannot serve Cambuslang again as most did prior to the timetable change in December 2009 when the hourly fast service was introduced. This seemed a rather paradoxical move as there would be less need to speed up the stopper by omitting any stops, if supplemented with an express serving the busiest stations. However with the introduction of the hourly express there were decent connections at Bellshill from Cambuslang and other Argyle Line stations into the express service. Nowadays, however with the Lanark services now running from the high level and very few express services post-Covid, the connection with Argyle Line stations is lost and from Cambuslang you have about 25 minutes to wait at Bellshill for a connection with the stopper. I might be biased as Cambuslang is one of my local stations, but it really needs the hourly stopper to call there again, recognising its importance as an interchange station with the Argyle Line. Whenever I travel to Edinburgh nowadays, I either cycle to Uddingston or Shettleston to catch the train or travel via Queen Street, which incurs a higher fare.

AFAIK, Shotts services have never called at Newton and given the potential for conflicting movements introducing a stop there would be trickier, unless of course they were routed via Hamilton or the main line platforms were reinstated!

The road route from Newton station to Uddingston involves a 60mph back-road with no pavements. Considering I don't drive it's pretty much useless.

One can only hope they either stop the Shotts at Cambuslang, or manage to squeeze services in the two crossovers to call at Newton. Or more simply, run some services via Hamilton and call at both.

 

[drb61]

The road route from Newton station to Uddingston involves a 60mph back-road with no pavements. Considering I don't drive it's pretty much useless.

One can only hope they either stop the Shotts at Cambuslang, or manage to squeeze services in the two crossovers to call at Newton. Or more simply, run some services via Hamilton and call at both.

Believe it or not though that road is part of the Sustrans cycle network! It does lead onto a traffic free path once you reach Blantyre Farm Road, but probably not a route you'd want to walk in the dark! I did actually walk from Uddingston to Newton once in 2021 after missing a train to Cambuslang (which was only hourly at the time due to cuts during the pandemic).

I'm not so sure the Hamilton loop has much capacity for extra services with 4tph each way using the single track section through Barncluth tunnel. But extending the existing Motherwell (via Hamilton) and Whifflet services to serve all stations on the Shotts line might work once the 318s/320s are replaced with new stock capable of both DOO and DCO.

With talk of increasing services between Glasgow QS and Edinburgh back to 4tph (I gather it's already planned for Saturdays from next month), personally I'd rather see half of the expresses run from Glasgow Central, rather than going back to 4tph from Queen Street, particularly now that Cross Country run very few services to Glasgow. I'm thinking something along the lines of: -

2tph: GLQ - EDB, calling Croy, Falkirk High, Polmont, Linlithgow and Haymarket (as at present)
1tph: GLC - EDB, calling Bellshill, Holytown, West Calder, Livingston S, and Haymarket
1tph: GLC - EDB, calling Uddingston, Holytown, Shotts, Livingston S and Haymarket
1tph: Dalmuir - Edinburgh, calling all stations via Whifflet except BRC and ADW (DOO to Shotts, DCO east of Shotts)
1tph: Dalmuir - Edinburgh, calling all stations via Hamilton except HTW (DOO to Shotts, DCO east of Shotts)

One advantage of this is that no additional capacity is required at GLC or between HYM and EDB, compared to pre-pandemic service levels. Based on the current timetable the stoppers would call at Holytown around xx.10 and xx.40 giving most stations on the line a half-hourly service. In order to path the expresses around these, they would need to leave Glasgow Central at around xx.15 and xx.45, call at Holytown around xx.05 and xx.35 and arrive in Edinburgh a few minutes behind the stoppers, taking just over an hour. To mitigate the longer journey times (especially via Hamilton) customers travelling from Glasgow to stations not served by the expresses, could depart later on an express and change at Holytown to pick up the stopper.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the calls at Cambuslang and Newton, I have tweaked the timings slightly.

The present all stations calls Cambuslang every 60 minutes (as before 2009 - as these got cut not long after the Virgin VHF timetable recast of 2008, plus this was when 156s ran the route which had a maximum speed of 75mph compared with the maximum speed of 100mph of the 385s), and for the 2 hourly via Hamilton I have inserted a call at Newton.

Believe it or not though that road is part of the Sustrans cycle network! It does lead onto a traffic free path once you reach Blantyre Farm Road, but probably not a route you'd want to walk in the dark! I did actually walk from Uddingston to Newton once in 2021 after missing a train to Cambuslang (which was only hourly at the time due to cuts during the pandemic).

I'm not so sure the Hamilton loop has much capacity for extra services with 4tph each way using the single track section through Barncluth tunnel. But extending the existing Motherwell (via Hamilton) and Whifflet services to serve all stations on the Shotts line might work once the 318s/320s are replaced with new stock capable of both DOO and DCO.

With talk of increasing services between Glasgow QS and Edinburgh back to 4tph (I gather it's already planned for Saturdays from next month), personally I'd rather see half of the expresses run from Glasgow Central, rather than going back to 4tph from Queen Street, particularly now that Cross Country run very few services to Glasgow. I'm thinking something along the lines of: -

2tph: GLQ - EDB, calling Croy, Falkirk High, Polmont, Linlithgow and Haymarket (as at present)
1tph: GLC - EDB, calling Bellshill, Holytown, West Calder, Livingston S, and Haymarket
1tph: GLC - EDB, calling Uddingston, Holytown, Shotts, Livingston S and Haymarket
1tph: Dalmuir - Edinburgh, calling all stations via Whifflet except BRC and ADW (DOO to Shotts, DCO east of Shotts)
1tph: Dalmuir - Edinburgh, calling all stations via Hamilton except HTW (DOO to Shotts, DCO east of Shotts)

One advantage of this is that no additional capacity is required at GLC or between HYM and EDB, compared to pre-pandemic service levels. Based on the current timetable the stoppers would call at Holytown around xx.10 and xx.40 giving most stations on the line a half-hourly service. In order to path the expresses around these, they would need to leave Glasgow Central at around xx.15 and xx.45, call at Holytown around xx.05 and xx.35 and arrive in Edinburgh a few minutes behind the stoppers, taking just over an hour. To mitigate the longer journey times (especially via Hamilton) customers travelling from Glasgow to stations not served by the expresses, could depart later on an express and change at Holytown to pick up the stopper.

Regarding the Dalmuir - Edinburgh via Whifflet/Hamilton, I would be wary of such a route due to the amount of flat junctions. Dalmuir - Partick - Haymarket - Waverley is already covered by the existing Helensburgh trains via Airdrie.

Depending upon if there is sufficient space due to the elevated Clydeside Expressway, the siding at Exhibition Centre could have a side platform. This would enable more trains to run via Central Low Level, and these could run to Wishaw/Lanark/Carstairs via Holytown calling at Ravenscraig.

Furthermore, I am surprised that nobody from Lothian Region has commented yet with their thoughts, considering I have doubled the frequency Waverley - West Calder section to every 30 minutes.

 

[alxndr]

The road route from Newton station to Uddingston involves a 60mph back-road with no pavements. Considering I don't drive it's pretty much useless.

If you felt particularly fit I think you could get there more or less off road by walking north of the railway and picking up the Clyde Walkway path, but it's 2.5 miles from Newton station, plus however far it is from where you stay. Would definitely be preferable to walking down the back roads but not particularly practical. I've been meaning to give it a go but not got round to it yet (well, I did have a vague idea of attempting it on a bike once, but didn't realise that part is unmade unlike heading into Glasgow is).