Suggestions for new stations/services for Yorkshire area.

[natureboy]

What do we think of my suggestions for new stations/services?

A new station at Thornhill on the Huddersfield - Wakefield line bearing the name "Thornhill (Dewsbury South)". The up line could be shifted south a few yards and an island platform built close to Slaithwaite Road bridge.

A new station at Horbury on the same line bearing the name "Horbury and Ossett Parkway". There's plenty of space here for an island platform by the bridge carrying the A642 Quarry Hill.

I suggest that the route between Thornhill and Wakefield Kirkgate be upgraded to 75mph (or better) and relaid directly through the centre of the former Healy Mills marshalling yard. Horbury junction could also be eliminated and the line speeds on the routes to both Huddersfield and Barnsley increased by implementing a similar layout to that at Burton Salmon where the two routes come along side, but don't physically connect until Milford junction.

Should these two stations ever open I suggest the following services:

1. Huddersfield to Leeds via Normanton calling at; Mirfield, Thornhill (Dewsbury South), Horbury and Ossett Parkway, Wakefield Kirkgate, Normaton and Woodlesford.

2. Huddersfield to Doncaster via Pontefract Monkhill calling at; Mirfield, Thornhill (Dewsbury South), Horbury and Ossett Parkway, Wakefield Kirkgate, Streethouse, Featherstone, Pontefract Tanshelf, Pontefract Monkhill, Knottingley (new platform 3), Womersley, Norton and Askern. This is an extension of the current Wakefield Kirkgate - Knottingley service with new South Yorkshire stations at Womersley, Norton and Askern.

I'd also like to see a Leeds - York/Selby service via Castleford. This could begin as a 2 hourly service to York and a 2 hourly service to Selby meaning a train goes east from Castleford once an hour. This could be combined with an improved York - Sheffield service via Pontefract Baghill and a new link to Selby. This would in turn give Moorthorpe, Thurnsoe, Goldthorpe and Bolton-on-Dearne a half hourly service.
Trains could work Leeds - York; York - Sheffield; Sheffield - Selby; Selby - Leeds.

Another service which I'd like to see is Leeds - Knottingley via Normanton and Featherstone. This would give Streethouse, Featherstone and Pontefract Tanshelf a direct service to Leeds. These stations would also benefit from a Sunday service. Featherstone Rovers frequently play rugby on a Sunday. How are punters supposed to get there? The same goes for Pontefract Tanshelf which is close to the Racecourse which regularly holds Sunday meetings.

I could go on, but let's see what people think to what I've suggested so far.

 

[Emyr]

How many diagrams are you going to need in order to provide those services in comparison with current timetables?

 

[Moonshot]

All paid for by ... ??

 

[bluenoxid]

WYCA are currently looking into new stations in West Yorkshire.

Ossett is the most likely to get off the ground

With regards to the train services, I don't really see them taking off. If I wanted to improve Moorthorpe to Sheffield, I would just terminate at Moorthorpe or run fast to Wakefield Kirkgate/Leeds

Running past Castleford is a nice idea and I would suggest sending them to Hull. Now is the time to have this debate.

 

[87019Chris]

How about opening a station in Elland? the line runs straight past it, and also as far as I am aware it is quite difficult to get to by public transport and the calling point could be added to the Selby/Leeds to Huddersfield via Halifax trains? Also not sure where the Kirkstall Forge Station is in the pipeline but I feel that this is needed to act as a Parkway station, for commuters to complete there into Leeds by rail. Also I feel that it would need to be connected well by bus too to take full advantage of this station.

 

[Grumpy]

and relaid directly through the centre of the former Healy Mills marshalling yard.

I think the issue is "what is the future of Healey Mills?". There's an awful lot of disused land with railway tracks round the outside. Given the pressure for new housing I cant help but think you could build thousands of houses on the site, possibly after concentrating the through lines on one side. If you did so you could build a new station (funded by the developer) in the best location to suit, which may or not be the same as your Horbury and Ossett.

Whilst we're in this area might I comment that the M1 northbound is terribly congested in the morning. There seems to be an awful lot of traffic travelling north towards Leeds. I have often thought that a station south of Wakefield, just off the M1, giving a fastish service into Leeds, would do well. Crigglestone perhaps, but I don't know where you would put it given the need for a decent car park. Perhaps the ideal might be somewhere near the original Horbury that could use your Service 1. However this would need a road from the A636 with bridges over the waterways so presumably not cheap-although it would give the Horbury area better access to the M1.

 

[natureboy]

How about opening a station in Elland? the line runs straight past it, and also as far as I am aware it is quite difficult to get to by public transport and the calling point could be added to the Selby/Leeds to Huddersfield via Halifax trains? Also not sure where the Kirkstall Forge Station is in the pipeline but I feel that this is needed to act as a Parkway station, for commuters to complete there into Leeds by rail. Also I feel that it would need to be connected well by bus too to take full advantage of this station.

Elland is already on the cards and should open in the next year or so, as should Kirstall and Apperley Bridge. I was suggesting stations that I'm sure would be winners despite not being talked about for years.
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All paid for by ... ??

That £15 billion or so we're supposed to be getting.
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More people are using the railways of Britain than ever before. If that's so why do we have lines like Castleford - York/Selby and Knottingley - Askern - Doncaster with no services. While the Askern line is host to GC services from Bradford to London it doesn't have any intermediate stations. Pontefract Baghill, Whitley Bridge, Hensall, Snaith and Rawcliffe. Their services are a joke. Look at a timetable from the 1970s and the Goole line has a far better service. This is how it should be in the 21st century. Pontefract Baghill should have a few XC services along with a better NT service.

 

[bluenoxid]

You're exaggerating Elland. Whilst it has been mentioned in the Five Year Plan, it is the furthest station from completion of the four mentioned in the CP plan by Network Rail.

Apperley Bridge and Kirkstall Forge are on course for the end of 2015. Low Moor should be close behind if not the end of 2015.

 

[AndyHudds]

Instead of opening a extra station on the line at Thornhill couldn't be Ravensthorpe be redeveloped into a parkway type station with 4 platforms, 2 in the Leeds direction and 2 in the Wakefield direction? It could be named Ravensthorpe and Thornhill Parkway, there is a lot of land around Ravensthorpe station for a car park and bus stops, the current station suffers due to its remoteness and needs something doing with it.

 

[billio]

Running past Castleford is a nice idea and I would suggest sending them to Hull. Now is the time to have this debate.

I think services past Castleford would be better providing semi-fast trains between stations such as Sheffield, Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield, Normanton, Castleford into York and perhaps beyond to say Scarborough. Sheffield and Wakefield already have services to York so it's mainly the intermediate stations that are of interest.

However a service to Hull is an interesting idea. Where would it serve west of Castleford. the Calder Valley perhaps or Sheffield & Barnsley ?.

 

[87019Chris]

Elland is already on the cards and should open in the next year or so, as should Kirstall and Apperley Bridge. I was suggesting stations that I'm sure would be winners despite not being talked about for years.

There's nothing at Elland or Kirstall the last time I went past, so if it is going to be opened it will be a bit of scaffolding. This is never good for a new station, I hope that if anything wherever a new station is built that it is done properly and not an Example like Deighton or Bramley which are poor examples of stations that now suffer from trespassing situations, and poor platform conditions. They should be made to be used. With proper waiting shelters, and solid Platforms not wooden planked ones.

When you say stations that you are sure would be winners, as you cant be sure that they could be winners as they may just be fad's that work in the short term and then fail in the long term, or even just don't take off, to make a station it takes more than just the right location, in fact it doesn't even require that, what it needs is an efficient service, and to be well publicized to locals (which seen as most people don't really even know about these is very bad for them word should be well spread about them now around a year before they are opened and plans should be put in place for connecting buses and so on to give a complete understanding of how people can use them to the full advantage) , and also well designed from timetables to platform layouts.

 

[D6975]

The bit of track west of Ravensthorpe really needs to be put back to 4 tracks. Reducing it from 4 to 3 was madness.

Healey Mills has been mentioned before - the plan is I believe to have double track round the south side to allow redevelopment of the site with decent access from Storrs Hill Rd and possibly fom Healey Rd as well.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They should be made to be used. With proper waiting shelters, and solid Platforms not wooden planked ones.

In the late 80s and early 90s, when these stations opened, the choice was a wooden station or no station at all. Wooden stations probably wouldn't be allowed now, but the disadvantage of that is it costs so much more to re-open them. Look at how much Brighouse cost compared to the likes of Deighton or Crossflatts.

Before we start spending all our money on new stations, I'd like to see Yorkshire actually have a decent Sunday service. Pontefract has one train every two hours on a Sunday, and the Bradford to Ilkley/Skipton lines are the same. That's a disgrace.

 

[Iskra]

Im my opinion the service I'd like to see reinstated is this one:

Leeds-Glasgow Central Via S & C. In exactly the same format as the old Arriva Trains Northern Service. Running semi-fast from Leeds-Carlisle.

I think it provides a financially viable service and it is faster than any other route end to end.

The problem is of course that Northern lack the DMU's to really run this service.

An alternate, more feasible solution would be for a TPE Nottingham-Glasgow Central via Leeds and Carlisle after the start of the next franchise. It looks likely that TPE will be placing a new order for EMU's and Northern Hub electrification will release more 185's to run it with. Both Nottingham and Glasgow will be on the TPE network by then, making staffing/service efficiencies possible. A switched-on Open Access operator may even be able to run this service effectively.

 

[Bantamzen]

Before we start spending all our money on new stations, I'd like to see Yorkshire actually have a decent Sunday service. Pontefract has one train every two hours on a Sunday, and the Bradford to Ilkley/Skipton lines are the same. That's a disgrace.

Seconded on the Bradford-Ilkley service. Given that it's half-hourly Monday-Saturday, a two-hourly service on a Sunday is a bit disappointing to say the least. Especially as there are no direct buses & the only bus option from Bradford through to Baildon is to catch an hourly service to Guiseley, change onto a half-hourly service to Otley then change again there towards Ilkley (and the connections are hardly organic between the various changes).

 

[Clip]

So now people in the North want new stations AND brand new rolling stock.... whatever next

 

[Jonny]

So now people in the North want new stations AND brand new rolling stock.... whatever next

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sztf4hcGrB4#t=87
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No, seriously though, Ripon could do with a railway line and station, running from Harrogate with services to/from Leeds at one end and through to Northallerton with services running as stoppers (ideally with 100mph+ rolling stock) through to Newcastle.

 

[billio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sztf4hcGrB4#t=87
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No, seriously though, Ripon could do with a railway line and station, running from Harrogate with services to/from Leeds at one end and through to Northallerton with services running as stoppers (ideally with 100mph+ rolling stock) through to Newcastle.

Anyone thought of building this "new line" via Thirsk ?. Slightly further but covering a greater population and possibly more passengers.

 

[bluenoxid]

I think services past Castleford would be better providing semi-fast trains between stations such as Sheffield, Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield, Normanton, Castleford into York and perhaps beyond to say Scarborough. Sheffield and Wakefield already have services to York so it's mainly the intermediate stations that are of interest.

However a service to Hull is an interesting idea. Where would it serve west of Castleford. the Calder Valley perhaps or Sheffield & Barnsley ?.

I'm going to be controversial and say Leeds.

I have personally been a fan of changing the current Sheffield - York services to run them via Barnsley rather than Pontefract, although it could be diverted via the other Pontefract stations and then Featherstone and Barnsley.

Although I have been a big fan of running via Hull, I'm beginning to wonder if sending the Scarborough service via Castleford would be an option. It opens new options, relieves pressure on the Leeds to Mirfield Corridor and keeps them connected to Leeds with a reasonably quick service.

Many will be quick to point out congestion at Leeds but there are plans to merge 13 and 14 into one through line and my view is that 16 could then become a platform used to terminate trains off the Castleford line.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With regard to the OP's suggestion of a station at Thornhill, the key problem there is that I don't think there's a huge demand for travel to Wakefield from there. Thornhill does have a very good bus service (at least during the day, sundays excepted!) into Dewsbury for onward travel to Leeds. Dewsbury also still has a free town bus service, meaning transfer from bus to rail needn't be a problem- unlike Halifax, which I'd argue needs it more.
A better (and presumably cheaper) way to bring the area onto the network would be to build platforms on the Wakefield line at Ravensthorpe. The empty land in Ravensthorpe alluded to by another poster could well be used for much-needed new housing, though I'm not sure if that land might need some sort of decontamination, as I'm not sure what it was used for previously but have a feeling that some of the wasteground was used as landfill.
Horbury and Ossett would be ideal, with an island platform at the point where the A642 crosses the line as suggested by the OP- though if Healey Mills yard was to be redeveloped for housing, this might be too close to H&O for a dedicated station to be viable- while being a bit too far away from there to be adequately served by it.
Elland of course was planned to get a station at the same time as Brighouse, until the money ran out! It's really a good job that it wasn't Elland that was started first though, as wherever the station eventually ends up being (Lowfields or towards West Vale are the sites being considered IIRC) it won't serve Elland quite as well as Brighouse serves Brighouse!

I definitely agree with the post asking for better Sunday services though- this is one of Metro's biggest failings in both rail and bus- At the very least, the Huddersfield-Leeds stoppers (both routes) should be hourly between 0900 and 1800. Hopefully this might be possible when the wiring of many routes is complete, given that the DMUs won't be stretched so thinly and EMUs generally require less 'down-time'. I'd also argue that Metro is a little bit too Leeds-centric, though I imagine folk in Bolton would say the same about TfGM!

 

[Starmill]

I'd also argue that Metro is a little bit too Leeds-centric, though I imagine folk in Bolton would say the same about TfGM!

Much more so. There are loads of services in WY that aren't there for the benefit of Leeds. Bradford - Skipton followed by Bradford - Ilkley are probably the most important, but Huddersfield - Bradford and Huddersfield - Wakefield too. Sadly Knottingley - Wakefield is a bit of a disaster :/

In GM I can think of... the Stockport - Stalybridge parly... Bryn doesn't have Manchester services either, I suppose. Same story with Metrolink; travel is via the City Centre (or via Cornbrook).

Some other musings about WY stations recently were had here between 61653 HTAFC and I from this post and three down. Thoughts appreciated if you haven't already seen it
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Elland is already on the cards and should open in the next year or so, as should Kirstall and Apperley Bridge. I was suggesting stations that I'm sure would be winners despite not being talked about for years.

Really? I thought funding was confirmed and the green light had been given for Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge? I haven't seen any design work for Elland at all.
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In the late 80s and early 90s, when these stations opened, the choice was a wooden station or no station at all. Wooden stations probably wouldn't be allowed now, but the disadvantage of that is it costs so much more to re-open them. Look at how much Brighouse cost compared to the likes of Deighton or Crossflatts.

Before we start spending all our money on new stations, I'd like to see Yorkshire actually have a decent Sunday service. Pontefract has one train every two hours on a Sunday, and the Bradford to Ilkley/Skipton lines are the same. That's a disgrace.

It's bad lots of places. Look at the lines without Sunday service. Or stations like Bryn, Thatto Heath, Eccleston Park and Edge Hill which randomly close on Sundays for no reason whatsoever.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

TfGM may be even more 'Manchester-centric' than WYPTE is for Leeds- but then the city of Manchester is far more central to Greater Manchester than the city of Leeds is to West Yorkshire. Manchester is also considerably bigger than Leeds- so it makes more sense for it to be seen as a 'regional capital'.

The Bradford-Ilkley/Skipton services do work as a 'defence' of accusations of Leeds-centricity as both are 2tph until reasonably late monday to saturday. The Huddersfield-Bradford services do continue to Leeds though (even though they're only advertised as going to Bradford at Huddersfield).
I mentioned that Sunday services are a failing of Metro, and this shows again when comparing the Airedale/Wharfedale Bradford services to the Leeds ones: Bradford gets 1tp2h on each, Leeds gets an hourly service to both. Other services that don't serve Leeds at all are even worse, with Huddersfield-Wakefield and Wakefield-Knottingley getting no service at all. I'm surprised the Penistone line gets a service every other hour on Sundays. If I, as a Huddersfield resident, decide to go shopping on a Sunday I'll probably go to Manchester rather than Leeds because at least there's a Victoria stopper every hour alongside the TPE services. Of course, the problem on Sundays is getting to HUD in the first place, with the lousy hourly bus service that Metro/First seem to think is appropriate... :roll:

AFAIK preparatory work has begun on Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge. Planning permission has gone in (and I think been granted) for Low Moor.
As for Elland, the original (c.2000) site was going to be close to the old station, near to the junction of the A629 Elland Bypass- near the site where the signal box is (or was until recently). However, whilst work 'behind the scenes' seems to have been gathering momentum, I've heard various things that suggest even a site hasn't yet been finalised. I certainly wouldn't hold my breath!

 

[87019Chris]

The Huddersfield-Bradford services do continue to Leeds though (even though they're only advertised as going to Bradford at Huddersfield).

Of course, the problem on Sundays is getting to HUD in the first place, with the lousy hourly bus service that Metro/First seem to think is appropriate... :roll:

To explain the reason this is advertised as Bradford at Huddersfield and Brighouse at Leeds is so that people who are at Leeds and Huddersfield don't travel on the train to its end destination as it takes longer so people end up moaning at the conductors about why is it taking so long and why is it such a bad train. :roll:

And this is a problem everywhere in Yorkshire (at least) Sunday buses are terrible and they aren't fantastic in the midweek on my route anyway, but on a Sunday if you want to get somewhere I just order myself a taxi.

 

[CalderRail]

How about opening a station in Elland? the line runs straight past it, and also as far as I am aware it is quite difficult to get to by public transport and the calling point could be added to the Selby/Leeds to Huddersfield via Halifax trains? Also not sure where the Kirkstall Forge Station is in the pipeline but I feel that this is needed to act as a Parkway station, for commuters to complete there into Leeds by rail. Also I feel that it would need to be connected well by bus too to take full advantage of this station.

Elland Station has just lost it's primary champion when David Hardy lost his council seat & place on the PTE

Before we start spending all our money on new stations, I'd like to see Yorkshire actually have a decent Sunday service. Pontefract has one train every two hours on a Sunday, and the Bradford to Ilkley/Skipton lines are the same. That's a disgrace.

Seconded. Calder Valley service is terrible on Sundays - particularly the complete lack of services between Brighouse & Hebden Bridge.





There are arguements as well for a station at Cornholme, but it's stuck in the usual catch 22 - not enough transport links to encourage development, not enough population to encourage transport links.

Doing anything about it would require Calderdale Council, the developers & Network Rail to engage in some joined up thinking. Sadly at least one of those entities couldn't find their collective arses with both hands.

 

[Haydn1971]

Picking up on something said upthread, more platforms at Leeds would be good, in particular I'm thinking north of the current lines coming in from the west, moving the car park above and additional viaduct approach space and possibly a flyover for all terminating services. Alternatively, I've previously thrown the idea of having more platforms in the HS2 station for terminating services into Leeds from Castleford, Kirkgate, Sheffield etc

 

[natureboy]

Seconded on the Bradford-Ilkley service. Given that it's half-hourly Monday-Saturday, a two-hourly service on a Sunday is a bit disappointing to say the least. Especially as there are no direct buses & the only bus option from Bradford through to Baildon is to catch an hourly service to Guiseley, change onto a half-hourly service to Otley then change again there towards Ilkley (and the connections are hardly organic between the various changes).

I agree with this. Bradford Forster Square to Skipton and Ilkley should be hourly on a Sunday. The two hourly service to/from Ilkley is poor considering it's half hourly during the week and on a Saturday. The Skipton service is less inconvenient because one can simply change at Shipley. Having said all this it should be noted some lines don't have a Sunday service at all. Take Streethouse, Featherstone and Pontefract Tanshelf; and Huddersfield - Wakefield. There should be a Sunday service on these routes. Featherstone Rovers play rugby on a Sunday and race meetings are frequently held at Pontefract racecourse close to Tanshelf! Wake up Northern Rail!
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Picking up on something said upthread, more platforms at Leeds would be good, in particular I'm thinking north of the current lines coming in from the west, moving the car park above and additional viaduct approach space and possibly a flyover for all terminating services. Alternatively, I've previously thrown the idea of having more platforms in the HS2 station for terminating services into Leeds from Castleford, Kirkgate, Sheffield etc

I think Leeds Central station should have stayed open. Would be so much easier now with the increased amount of trains running in and out of the city.

 

[AndyHudds]

The last edition of 'Rail' carried a story regarding the proposed Elland station, the way they were talking as if it was a pretty dead cert. It'll be interesting to see what bus services are sent the way of any new station in Elland.

As for Metro, to be fair to them, they don't actually operate the buses or the trains do they? I do agree though on Sunday services and after 6pm. When First made major cuts to services a few years ago I e-mailed Metro about the cuts to my local bus service, the 372 to Almondbury the last one to Almondbury from Huddersfield town centre is 9pm, it used to be 11pm and the undertone of the reply was they weren't particularly happy with certain bus companies about cuts, in particular to 'flagship' routes. They also cut the 336/37 through Almondbury but this opened the door for Yorkshire Tiger to operate some services on a night, in fact Yorkshire Tiger seem to have broadened their route base over the last few years.

 

[Starmill]

TfGM may be even more 'Manchester-centric' than WYPTE is for Leeds- but then the city of Manchester is far more central to Greater Manchester than the city of Leeds is to West Yorkshire. Manchester is also considerably bigger than Leeds- so it makes more sense for it to be seen as a 'regional capital'.

Very correct on both counts. Manchester and Salford are also much more amalgamated than Leeds and Bradford. As far as a 'centre' goes, Salford is a corner of the City Centre and erm Eccles.