SWR MG11

[arailk]

Hi, I received an MG11 notice a While ago now due to having the wrong ticket:
- I was travelling from my home station to London Waterloo (WAT), on a train that does not stop at Vauxhall (VXH).
- I genuinely mistakenly bought a ticket VXH to WAT.
- my ticket let me through the barriers but was checked and was obviously not for the journey I had done!
- I cooperated with the staff and gave them my details and explained my genuine error, and was given an MG11. The staff did not give me any warning or tell me that they were taking down evidence to go to the prosecution team. As I left they said that I would receive a letter which would request the fee and the admin charge.

This is my first and only time I’ve done this, but obviously now I have googled I’m panicking. I’ve seen threads about writing letters to ask for out of court settlements and have drafted one explaining that this was a one off and genuine mistake that I won’t do again ( by the time I send I can show multiple journeys on the same train with the correct ticket purchased!).

I’m posting as I can’t find a similar thread to ask if anyone has had a similar experience- I see this is known as ‘short-faring’ but I had no idea this existed before.

So, has anyone done a similar thing and what was the outcome?


Thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

Unfortunately for you, this doesn't look good and appears to have all the hallmarks of a serial short farer. Whether this:

- in my genuinely sleepy state I didn’t realise that the pre set on my Trainline app was set to Vauxhall to Waterloo, purchased a ticket and fell asleep on the train.
- my ticket got checked going through the barriers and was obviously not for the journey I had done!

...is true or not, SWR have seen this literally thousands and thousands of times, and it is a very difficult genuine error to make, and probably wouldn't cut the mustard in a court.

Why was the app pre-set for Vauxhall to Waterloo?

How many times have you purchased a Vauxhall to Waterloo ticket in the past? SWR will check this.

Do you know that almost nobody purchases Vauxhall to Waterloo tickets other than to work the barrier at Waterloo, because the contactless or Oyster fare is cheaper and more sensible almost all of the time?

 

[arailk]

I’ve purchased it maybe once or twice- but for genuinely coming from Vauxhall after staying with a friend. It is easier for my expenses when they apply if I have the Trainline receipt.

I’d been looking at train times between Vauxhall and Waterloo previously hence that being the option when I opened the app.

If this is the first time then surely they won’t see it as a ‘serial short-farer’?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==

Sorry to add- the person who gave me the MG11 and took the details said that they’d be in touch to claim the fare and admin fee, it was only when I started googling once at work that I discovered it could be worse!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hoping for the first letter from them to be an offer of a settlement rather than having to argue it but does this tend to happen with South Western Rail?

Highly unlikely I would think that they will juts write t you and say 'please pay us this fare owed' etc - 1st letter I would think will be a letter indicating you were stopped without a valid ticket and will probably mention the possibility of prosecution, and you will be asked to tell your side of the story.

I fear that I doubt they would put that much credence by your version of events since it has such clear co-incidental likeness to a common short faring tactic that many people deliberately seeking to evade a fare will do. But you can of course give it a try.

So in your reply i would focus on your apology and request to put things right by paying what is owed - as well as putting your explanation in brief if it is true. If not true however I would not mention it since a lie is best avoided given that they would probably be within their rights to go direct to court prosecution if they wish to do so - hopefully that will not happen though.

The thing to bear in mind is that they will check your ticket purchasing history and bearing in mind the home address you gave will look for any anomalies - so honesty is your best policy - but you don't need to tell them more than they may already know, or can easily find out from those records.

When you actually here from them you will of course get more good advice on here as to how best to respond.

 

[island]

I’ve purchased it maybe once or twice- but for genuinely coming from Vauxhall after staying with a friend. It is easier for my expenses when they apply if I have the Trainline receipt.

Where is your final destination in London when you take the train after you're "staying with your friend"? Most people travelling from Vauxhall to central London take the Victoria line. The comparatively few people genuinely taking Vauxhall to Waterloo National Rail services pay with contactless because it's cheaper.

I’d been looking at train times between Vauxhall and Waterloo previously hence that being the option when I opened the app.

Really? If you don't live near Vauxhall, why would you be searching for trains from Vauxhall?

If this is the first time then surely they won’t see it as a ‘serial short-farer’?

But it wasn't the first time, was it? It was just the first time you got caught, wasn't it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2022 ==

Sorry to add- the person who gave me the MG11 and took the details said that they’d be in touch to claim the fare and admin fee, it was only when I started googling once at work that I discovered it could be worse!!

It depends on what they find.

You can be sure that SWR will be in touch with Trainline to see how many times you've bought tickets from Vauxhall to Waterloo. They may well also query the scanning history on those tickets, if they were e-tickets, to see if they were scanned at the ticket gates at times and in locations corresponding to the arrival of fast trains that didn't call there. If this is a pattern of behaviour, expect they will find out.

My advice whilst you wait for the letter would be to start saving as you could well be getting a demand for a chunky settlement. And obviously, pay your proper fare going forward.

 

[RPI]

Hi, I received an MG11 notice a While ago now due to having the wrong ticket:
- I was travelling from my home station to London Waterloo (WAT), on a train that does not stop at Vauxhall (VXH).
- I genuinely mistakenly bought a ticket VXH to WAT.
- my ticket let me through the barriers but was checked and was obviously not for the journey I had done!
- I cooperated with the staff and gave them my details and explained my genuine error, and was given an MG11. The staff did not give me any warning or tell me that they were taking down evidence to go to the prosecution team. As I left they said that I would receive a letter which would request the fee and the admin charge.

This is my first and only time I’ve done this, but obviously now I have googled I’m panicking. I’ve seen threads about writing letters to ask for out of court settlements and have drafted one explaining that this was a one off and genuine mistake that I won’t do again ( by the time I send I can show multiple journeys on the same train with the correct ticket purchased!).

I’m posting as I can’t find a similar thread to ask if anyone has had a similar experience- I see this is known as ‘short-faring’ but I had no idea this existed before.

So, has anyone done a similar thing and what was the outcome?


Thank you

Where did you actually travel from?

 

[arailk]

For anyone else looking for actual advice for a similar situation, the SWR prosecutions department have said that they are looking at 4 weeks for a letter to be sent following the incident. If it has been over 2 months they suggested to call to check on the status, using the reference number at the top of the receipt you were handed. This is incase it goes to the wrong address etc, you don't want to be seen to be ignoring it!

 

[30907]

For anyone else looking for actual advice for a similar situation, the SWR prosecutions department have said that they are looking at 4 weeks for a letter to be sent following the incident. If it has been over 2 months they suggested to call to check on the status, using the reference number at the top of the receipt you were handed. This is incase it goes to the wrong address etc, you don't want to be seen to be ignoring it!

That's useful info, thanks.

 

[Bubblegum123]

For anyone else looking for actual advice for a similar situation, the SWR prosecutions department have said that they are looking at 4 weeks for a letter to be sent following the incident. If it has been over 2 months they suggested to call to check on the status, using the reference number at the top of the receipt you were handed. This is incase it goes to the wrong address etc, you don't want to be seen to be ignoring it!

Was there an update on thsi

 

[Wethebest838]

Was there an update on thsi

It’ll be best if you start your own thread so we can help you if you are in the same boat as the OP.

 

[arailk]

Hi, as an update I received an out of court settlement for £108.40 This is £8.40 fare avoided and £100 penalty. So I am assuming they can see from my trainline account data that it was the first time this has happened and have treated it as such, hence the one fair avoided amount. I hope that this information is helpful and some comfort for anyone else in the same boat! The letter took about 10 weeks to arrive from SWR, so slightly longer than expected but luckily not the full 6 months!

I would like to say about this forum, that I came on here having seen other posts where people received useful help and advice for doing much worse than my genuine one time mistake, and I feel like I received some very judgmental and unhelpful comments (some, not all... thank you to those who did give helpful responses to my questions). As you can see from the outcome, I was telling the truth and I was simply nervous about what would happen as I had no information given to me at the station when I was stopped and handed the MG11. I actually had to block this website because I kept checking and reading the responses on this thread and it made everything a lot worse. Remember there is a person on the other side of the screen looking for advice who can be impacted by what you say.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, as an update I received an out of court settlement for £108.40 This is £8.40 fare avoided and £100 penalty. So I am assuming they can see from my trainline account data that it was the first time this has happened and have treated it as such, hence the one fair avoided amount. I hope that this information is helpful and some comfort for anyone else in the same boat! The letter took about 10 weeks to arrive from SWR, so slightly longer than expected but luckily not the full 6 months!

I would like to say about this forum, that I came on here having seen other posts where people received useful help and advice for doing much worse than my genuine one time mistake, and I feel like I received some very judgmental and unhelpful comments (some, not all... thank you to those who did give helpful responses to my questions). As you can see from the outcome, I was telling the truth and I was simply nervous about what would happen as I had no information given to me at the station when I was stopped and handed the MG11. I actually had to block this website because I kept checking and reading the responses on this thread and it made everything a lot worse. Remember there is a person on the other side of the screen looking for advice who can be impacted by what you say.

Thanks for update - good to hear of this outcome and that also they believed your situation / checks thy might have done backed it up.

Second part of your message is important too. I suspect that people are not really being judgmental here, but putting the sorts of scenarios that the investigation team will be considering past anyone who posts - in some ways that will cause people to be anxious but also ensure people are realistic about what may happen to them if they have not been entirely honest about their circs. Anyhow - thanks for posting that as it is a salutatory reminder on such matters.

But good that you feel you have a had a reasonably fair outcome from SWR over this. That is good news.

 

[Sebastian O]

Thanks for update - good to hear of this outcome and that also they believed your situation / checks thy might have done backed it up.

Second part of your message is important too. I suspect that people are not really being judgmental here, but putting the sorts of scenarios that the investigation team will be considering past anyone who posts - in some ways that will cause people to be anxious but also ensure people are realistic about what may happen to them if they have not been entirely honest about their circs. Anyhow - thanks for posting that as it is a salutatory reminder on such matters.

But good that you feel you have a had a reasonably fair outcome from SWR over this. That is good news.

I disagree and conversely agree with the OP - advice given on the forum really must be objective and not have a subjective approach, turning it into a bit of a kangaroo court.

Appreciate we can get passionate but sometimes after the event it’s just unhelpful.

 

[Haywain]

I disagree and conversely agree with the OP - advice given on the forum really must be objective and not have a subjective approach, turning it into a bit of a kangaroo court.

Appreciate we can get passionate but sometimes after the event it’s just unhelpful.

It's easy to say that but if we are to help we must get to the truth and unfortunately many posters asking for help are somewhat economical with it.

 

[WesternLancer]

I disagree and conversely agree with the OP - advice given on the forum really must be objective and not have a subjective approach, turning it into a bit of a kangaroo court.

Appreciate we can get passionate but sometimes after the event it’s just unhelpful.

Indeed - but in this case it has to be appreciated that Vauxhall Waterloo seems to be an absolute classic short fare dodge (as is Stratford - Liverpool Street which crops up on the forum fairly regularly) and I recall several cases of it on here with people admitting that was the dodge they used. So I bet the railways sees it numerous times a week if not daily.

So that is bad luck for the passenger who makes a genuine mistake that replicates such a frequently abused fare. But we just need to be mindful of that, and respect the OP for mentioning it.

 

[AlterEgo]

I disagree and conversely agree with the OP - advice given on the forum really must be objective and not have a subjective approach, turning it into a bit of a kangaroo court.

Appreciate we can get passionate but sometimes after the event it’s just unhelpful.

None of the responses the OP received are any different or more triggering than a half decent defence solicitor would ask you when taking your case, to assess the strength of your defence.

We can’t help anyone here unless they are truthful; many many cases have seen the OP clobbered with something much heavier than was expected because they concealed important information when asking for advice. The reason the OP was MG11’d instead of penalty fared was because their case did indeed have all the hallmarks of a serial fare evader - a Vauxhall to Waterloo ticket coming off a non-Vauxhall stopper is Level 1 fare evasion and absolutely something a good RPI should MG11 for in order that additional investigations be made to see if other fares can be recovered.

Nonetheless, the OP seemed to be relatively upfront about things and as it’s been borne out, it was a single offence detected and hence has been disposed of in a a pragmatic manner.