Tea and biscuits on sleepers

[Cheshire Scot]

The only time I did Dinner Bed and Breakfast was on the sleeper only Madrid to Paris Talgo some time in the 80s.
I recall berth (in 4 berth compartment) + dinner + breakfast (both in the dining car) came to around fifty quid, made within budget due to travelling on a free pass!
It took a while to get through to the waiter I wanted a half bottle of rose - at the time I didn't know it was rosado in Spanish and he did not understand rose (accent missing from rose, sorry)!


Breakfast trays from Europe.

In 1995 we did Brussels to Padova (the booked T2 or T2S was replace by a type M car which gave us extra space) and returned Pisa to Paris (T2S) -price not listed for this tray.
In 2002 it was Paris to Chur and returned Zurich to Paris - T2 both ways and enjoyed the Petite Dejeuner Continental outward but had breakfast on Eurostar on the way back.

 

[John Luxton]

Something, perhaps, like this bottle of "Drinking water"? No idea how long it's been knocking around the house, or why...
View attachment 108591

Yes! That's it!

 

[StephenHunter]

The only time I did Dinner Bed and Breakfast was on the sleeper only Madrid to Paris Talgo some time in the 80s.
I recall berth (in 4 berth compartment) + dinner + breakfast (both in the dining car) came to around fifty quid, made within budget due to travelling on a free pass!
It took a while to get through to the waiter I wanted a half bottle of rose - at the time I didn't know it was rosado in Spanish and he did not understand rose (accent missing from rose, sorry)!


Breakfast trays from Europe.

In 1995 we did Brussels to Padova (the booked T2 or T2S was replace by a type M car which gave us extra space) and returned Pisa to Paris (T2S) -price not listed for this tray.
In 2002 it was Paris to Chur and returned Zurich to Paris - T2 both ways and enjoyed the Petite Dejeuner Continental outward but had breakfast on Eurostar on the way back.

What were the T2S sleepers like? They look cramped from the diagrams....

 

[Cheshire Scot]

What were the T2S sleepers like? They look cramped from the diagrams....

Yes, cramped, 17 compartments in the same length of coach as a 12 compartment MU, but of course they enabled use of a two berth compartment in second class and benefitted from being full height in terms of headroom between bunks, but even the toilet compartments were very tight for space.

I much preferred a T2 upper compartment which was relatively spacious given there were 18 compartments in the coach, and with fixed beds still had room for a two seat bench. Fortunately I was never allocated a lower compartment in a T2 which I suspect would have been even more cramped, particularly in respect of low ceiling height with the bed in an upper compartment overhead.

Fortunately Cooks, and the International Sleeping Car Timetable of the 80s and early 90s, did generally show which type of car was allocated so at least one knew what to expect.

In very brief summary, T2S domestically in Italy and Germany and on international trains to/from these countries, also on the domestic Danish sleeper service until replaced by redundant ex BR Mk3s. T2 popular in France and international routes. In Spain T2 was First Class only.

 

[Rescars]

As said, no fixed tables although an alternative might be to place the tray - or trays - on the sink cover which was normally closed and was a flat surface, and larger than the small shelf which as noted is where the small tray with individual tea pot and milk jug plus cup and saucer (and of course the biscuits) were normally placed.

IIRC travelling on Anglo-Scottish Mark 1 sleepers c1980, the morning tea trays were very narrow, but fitted the flip-down shelf over the bunk perfectly. The only food I recall were the complimentary packs of three biscuits. Real breakfast was only to be had once off the train. Southbound the tray came with a London newspaper, put on the train at Crewe and rubber-stamped "With the compliments of London Midland Region".

 

[davetheguard]

Still available & now brewed (since 2017) by Marston's.

McEwans Export

Hopefully a better pint now?

 

[StephenHunter]

Yes, cramped, 17 compartments in the same length of coach as a 12 compartment MU, but of course they enabled use of a two berth compartment in second class and benefitted from being full height in terms of headroom between bunks, but even the toilet compartments were very tight for space.

I much preferred a T2 upper compartment which was relatively spacious given there were 18 compartments in the coach, and with fixed beds still had room for a two seat bench. Fortunately I was never allocated a lower compartment in a T2 which I suspect would have been even more cramped, particularly in respect of low ceiling height with the bed in an upper compartment overhead.

Fortunately Cooks, and the International Sleeping Car Timetable of the 80s and early 90s, did generally show which type of car was allocated so at least one knew what to expect.

In very brief summary, T2S domestically in Italy and Germany and on international trains to/from these countries, also on the domestic Danish sleeper service until replaced by redundant ex BR Mk3s. T2 popular in France and international routes. In Spain T2 was First Class only.

I'm wondering what precisely CIWL were thinking with the P and T2. As a further note, some T2S vehicles were converted into a conventional form with the AB33, one of which is currently on the Amsterdam-Zurich Nightjet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm wondering what precisely CIWL were thinking with the P and T2. As a further note, some T2S vehicles were converted into a conventional form with the AB33, one of which is currently on the Amsterdam-Zurich Nightjet.

I guess they were looking to create a 2-berth compartment (as this is what most people want) in the space of 3s? It is a curious layout.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I guess they were looking to create a 2-berth compartment (as this is what most people want) in the space of 3s? It is a curious layout.

Yes, maximum capacity of MU would be 36, for AB33 (obviously) 33, T2 - 36 and T2S 34. Granted the T2 layout is unusual but it worked, and as noted above I certainly liked them.

In two berth configuration for the full car MU would be 24, and AB33 - 22, whilst T2 and T2S remain as above.

Granted in MU and AB33 a first class ticket was required for two berth occupancy but my understanding was CIWL received the berth fees, whilst the railway administrations took the fare revenue, and therefore the T2 and T2S would payback for CIWL.

I never encountered a 'P' in my travels in the 70s 80s and 90s, although of course familiar with their equally quirky layout from the diagrams, and some of these were later completely reconfigured as I think AB30 (?) which I saw somewhere were to be the sleeper provision in the new Brussels services (other than the NightJet). Interesting to note the former T2S conversion to AB33 and in service with NightJet.

 

[30907]

Interesting to note the former T2S conversion to AB33 and in service with NightJet.

They are hired-in IIRC: obviously NJ were beaten to it for the cars with ensuite, and I am sure they will be replaced as soon as newer cars can be spared.
The Zurich-Amsterdam is a peculiar train being part NJ and part internal German seated service; it has loads of intermediate stops, not bookable by NJ passengers.

 

[StephenHunter]

Yes, maximum capacity of MU would be 36, for AB33 (obviously) 33, T2 - 36 and T2S 34. Granted the T2 layout is unusual but it worked, and as noted above I certainly liked them.

In two berth configuration for the full car MU would be 24, and AB33 - 22, whilst T2 and T2S remain as above.

Granted in MU and AB33 a first class ticket was required for two berth occupancy but my understanding was CIWL received the berth fees, whilst the railway administrations took the fare revenue, and therefore the T2 and T2S would payback for CIWL.

I never encountered a 'P' in my travels in the 70s 80s and 90s, although of course familiar with their equally quirky layout from the diagrams, and some of these were later completely reconfigured as I think AB30 (?) which I saw somewhere were to be the sleeper provision in the new Brussels services (other than the NightJet). Interesting to note the former T2S conversion to AB33 and in service with NightJet.

Not sure about the European Sleeper operation with the AB30; they have delayed their planned start due to rolling stock issues.

CIWL took berth fees and the charges were shown separately.

 

[Pigeon]

BR era sleeper bottled water was a (small) Malvern Water bottle. As bottled water was pretty unheard of in the 1970's , this was quite exotic.

When I used sleepers quite a few times 78-79 it a was Schweppes still water. Looked like Schweppes Sodawater but the label was white if I recall.

Schweppes bought the bottling plant for Malvern water (which is actually in Colwall), can't remember when but it could have been that long ago I suppose.

 

[Rescars]

Schweppes appear to have marketed Malvern Water in one form or another since the 1850s. IIRC it was the principal if not only brand of UK sourced mineral water available in the 1970s. By the by, any railway freight traffic that may have been generated by the Colwall bottling plant was sadly history by then.

 

[pitdiver]

Where I used to live in Flitwick Bedfordshire there was once a mineral water spring. This was eventually purchased by R Whites. However when Buxton water became popular the Flitwick water went out of fashion and it eventually closed down.

 

[Devonian]

Stumbled across this today: A 1976 BR poster showing the '70s-refurbished Mk1 sleeper... and the tea tray.

Poster produced for British Rail , promoting overnight services in...

Poster produced for British Rail , promoting overnight services in intercity sleeper trains, showing passengers in 1st and 2nd class sleeper carriages, a man shaving, and a guard delivering drinks.

www.gettyimages.co.uk

And here's a poster featuring the tea tray in 1980:

Poster produced for British Rail to promote the Inter-City sleeper...

Poster produced for British Rail to promote the Inter-City sleeper service. The poster shows a display of tea, coffee and biscuits set by the window of a train compartment. A sunrise over the sea and...

www.gettyimages.co.uk

 

[Rescars]

Stumbled across this today: A 1976 BR poster showing the '70s-refurbished Mk1 sleeper... and the tea tray.

Poster produced for British Rail , promoting overnight services in...

Poster produced for British Rail , promoting overnight services in intercity sleeper trains, showing passengers in 1st and 2nd class sleeper carriages, a man shaving, and a guard delivering drinks.

www.gettyimages.co.uk

And here's a poster featuring the tea tray in 1980:

Poster produced for British Rail to promote the Inter-City sleeper...

Poster produced for British Rail to promote the Inter-City sleeper service. The poster shows a display of tea, coffee and biscuits set by the window of a train compartment. A sunrise over the sea and...

www.gettyimages.co.uk

Splendid stuff. Also illustrates the wisdom of using an electric razor rather than attempting a bloodless wet-shave when running at express speed