Telegraph Poles

[RichmondCommu]

G'day everyone,

Just curious to know when the last telegraph poles were removed. I remember seeing some from the road near Appleby on the S&C around 1996 but i'm not sure whether they were in use or not. Just curious thats all!

Kind regards,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[philjo]

There is a section of the Joint Line (Sleaford area I think) which still has telegraph poles alongside, but no longer has the wires connected to them.

 

[PinzaC55]

If you count the Wensleydale Railway as part of the "National Network" it still has a complete run of the ancient type of pole with "staggered" crossbars although they have no wires.They are at least a hundred years old.

 

[Fozzie49]

Between Aberdeen and Inverness telegraph poles still in use at various sections in the Keith area.

 

[Welshman]

If you count the Wensleydale Railway as part of the "National Network" it still has a complete run of the ancient type of pole with "staggered" crossbars although they have no wires.They are at least a hundred years old.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that on lines to/from London, the crossbars were always on the London side of the pole.

Was that true, or am I imagining it?

 

[LE Greys]

Still there, some a bit wonky but complete with wires, between Ely and Norwich last time I travelled on that route.

 

[Samtron2000]

There is still one rotting away near skelton jct, timperley. Just down from where the signal box used to be!

 

[Hydro]

The Dungeness branch has a few still standing, a couple in good nick too.

 

[Surreytraveller]

There are some still standing between East Croydon and Norwood junction. Cannot remember if its the fast or slow lines, though.

 

[AlterEgo]

G'day everyone,

Just curious to know when the last telegraph poles were removed. I remember seeing some from the road near Appleby on the S&C around 1996 but i'm not sure whether they were in use or not. Just curious thats all!

Kind regards,

Richmond Commuter!

I'm pretty sure I caught sight of a few on the Settle and Carlisle line a few weeks ago.

 

[Greenback]

I'm pretty sure I caught sight of a few on the Settle and Carlisle line a few weeks ago.

I am sure I saw some too, when we took a rdie on the line in April. I forget where though!

 

[pendolino]

There are some still standing between East Croydon and Norwood junction. Cannot remember if its the fast or slow lines, though.

I don't recall seeing any telegraph poles here, but that's not to say there aren't. Though there is a single slack span of low voltage overhead power line going over the down Wallington (on the flyover, where the DW crosses over the Up London Bridge Fast/Slow & Down LB Fast), but it looks like this has been disconnected for years.
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I was going to add the trip wire at Gatwick, as that's on wooden poles so it sort-of counts. But I went past there today and it's in the process of being replaced with a new one on shiny galvanised lampposts.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I am sure I saw some too, when we took a rdie on the line in April. I forget where though!

Back in the mid 90's i'd spotted them between Appleby and Culgaith from the road so thats perhaps where you saw them? Given all the welcome investment on the S & C in recent years i'm amazed that they haven't been swept away.
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Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. I had no idea that they had made it into the 21st century given all the concrete trunking that is seen by the lineside nowadays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Still there, some a bit wonky but complete with wires, between Ely and Norwich last time I travelled on that route.

Thanks very much for this. My wife would like to visit Ely Cathedral this summer so i'll try and suggest that we travel via Norwich!

 

[Trog]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that on lines to/from London, the crossbars were always on the London side of the pole.

Was that true, or am I imagining it?

I have been told that too, by an S&T engineer with personal experience of replacing the old wooden telegraph poles by hand. So he should have known what he was talking about.

 

[Smudger105e]

I have been told that too, by an S&T engineer with personal experience of replacing the old wooden telegraph poles by hand. So he should have known what he was talking about.

Strange how customs like these build up over the years. Another is that generally speaking, the roads in yards and sidings are numbered away from the main line.

 

[a good off]

Back in the mid 90's i'd spotted them between Appleby and Culgaith from the road so thats perhaps where you saw them? Given all the welcome investment on the S & C in recent years i'm amazed that they haven't been swept away.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. I had no idea that they had made it into the 21st century given all the concrete trunking that is seen by the lineside nowadays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Thanks very much for this. My wife would like to visit Ely Cathedral this summer so i'll try and suggest that we travel via Norwich!

Sadly the pole route on the Norwich - Ely was taken out of use in the last two
years. The route is still worth a trip this summer as a resignalling scheme early in 2012 will see all the signalboxes, semaphores and crossing gates go.

 

[kentuckytony]

Just FYI - the TrainCrazy DVD from 2010 called "Railway Signalling in Anglia - Ely to Norwich" has great shots of signals, signal boxes (outside and inside), and "telegraph" poles.

[I put "telegraph" in quotes because, although the DVD wrapper and the DVD commentary refer to them as such (and I would, too), someone from another DVD company said one is ignorant to refer to them as telepgraph poles because they are telephone poles.
And I am not technical enough to really make a distinguishing argument.]

But they are nice to see anyway - since another video of the area showed them cut down and stacked up ready for removal.

 

[LE Greys]

Just FYI - the TrainCrazy DVD from 2010 called "Railway Signalling in Anglia - Ely to Norwich" has great shots of signals, signal boxes (outside and inside), and "telegraph" poles.

[I put "telegraph" in quotes because, although the DVD wrapper and the DVD commentary refer to them as such (and I would, too), someone from another DVD company said one is ignorant to refer to them as telepgraph poles because they are telephone poles.
And I am not technical enough to really make a distinguishing argument.]

But they are nice to see anyway - since another video of the area showed them cut down and stacked up ready for removal.

Well, the electric telegraph precedes the telephone by several decades, and the poles were put up for the benefit of the former rather than the latter, which took over the network of cables rather like a Strangler Fig taking over a tree.

 

[PinzaC55]

I was part of the Peak Rail team which removed Bamford signalbox in 1989 and I did a bit of snooping round the station. The massive old LMS telegaph poles were lying felled in the heavy undergrowth behind the Sheffield platfor, still covered in insulators including the Red ones which were used for power transmission.

 

[kentuckytony]

...which took over the network of cables rather like a Strangler Fig taking over a tree.

Or like kudzu here in the USA!

 

[142094]

There are some still in use on the Tyne Valley line, near Brampton way, although they only carry one cable. Apparently the insulators are quite collectible - have a look here.

 

[LE Greys]

I was part of the Peak Rail team which removed Bamford signalbox in 1989 and I did a bit of snooping round the station. The massive old LMS telegaph poles were lying felled in the heavy undergrowth behind the Sheffield platfor, still covered in insulators including the Red ones which were used for power transmission.

It would be interesting to recover them and put them back up again, but I'd imagine they've probably rotted beyond repair by now. The GCR has a few between Quorn and Rothley, albeit without wires. Maybe one day, a film company will turn up with some lengths of old wire from somewhere and re-string them, temporarily at least.

 

[fsmr]

we have loads of them at Stapleford

yes i know they are only 4 foot high:roll: but they will be on show in all their glory on 11th 12th June and August BH

www.fsmr.org.uk

 

[PinzaC55]

It would be interesting to recover them and put them back up again, but I'd imagine they've probably rotted beyond repair by now. The GCR has a few between Quorn and Rothley, albeit without wires. Maybe one day, a film company will turn up with some lengths of old wire from somewhere and re-string them, temporarily at least.

They were the enormous double post type so beloved of the LMS. As you say the posts are probably rotten now but the crossbars will possibly still be OK. It dismays me that so few heritage railways try to re-erect a Pole Route

 

[Mechy]

The only place on the Mainline network that still has an operational pole route is between Elgin and Inverness in the highlands. The Pole Route between Norwich-Ely (Which was by far the most impressive survivor) was decomissioned in January 2009. There are only 4 poles left along that line now, 1 Between Attleborough and Eccles Road and 3 at Wymondham linking the BT line to the Signal Box.

You can also find some poles between Reedham and Reedham Junction which still carry a pair of wires (quite possibly for an SPT.)

The Ely-Norwich is still of a lot of interest though as it is still fully signalled using the Absolute Block system with 9 working Signal Boxes complete with Semaphore Signals and Manual Crossing gates. Be quick though, NR are ripping it all out next year and replacing it with plastic signals controlled remotely from Cambridge.

They were the enormous double post type so beloved of the LMS. As you say the posts are probably rotten now but the crossbars will possibly still be OK. It dismays me that so few heritage railways try to re-erect a Pole Route

The issue is cost, with the price of copper being so high running out multiple strands of copper cable in easy reach of the cable fairies is just asking for trouble. It's a sad example of the world we live in today

 

[PinzaC55]

"The issue is cost, with the price of copper being so high running out multiple strands of copper cable in easy reach of the cable fairies is just asking for trouble. It's a sad example of the world we live in today "

Instead of which you can put it in a concrete trough on the ground where it VERY easy to get at and subject to the risk of gnawing by vermin or fire risk? If it's on poles it is wrapped round an insulater every 50 feet or so high above the ground - not particularly easy to get unless you have a tall ladder and climbing irons or a chainsaw?

 

[Fozzie49]

"The issue is cost, with the price of copper being so high running out multiple strands of copper cable in easy reach of the cable fairies is just asking for trouble. It's a sad example of the world we live in today "

Instead of which you can put it in a concrete trough on the ground where it VERY easy to get at and subject to the risk of gnawing by vermin or fire risk? If it's on poles it is wrapped round an insulater every 50 feet or so high above the ground - not particularly easy to get unless you have a tall ladder and climbing irons or a chainsaw?

The line wires are not wrapped round insulators on a pole route but are effectively tied to the insulator cups with wire wrapping. Also laterly very little copper was being used instead 'iron' wire was used for cost reasons but did suffer poor conductivity however.

 

[Ploughman]

In the depths of my odd book collection I have a drawing that shows the transposition of the wiring to each insulator at every pole over a mile.
Probably to reduce the effects of interference.

 

[Parham Wood]

"The issue is cost, with the price of copper being so high running out multiple strands of copper cable in easy reach of the cable fairies is just asking for trouble. It's a sad example of the world we live in today "

Instead of which you can put it in a concrete trough on the ground where it VERY easy to get at and subject to the risk of gnawing by vermin or fire risk? If it's on poles it is wrapped round an insulater every 50 feet or so high above the ground - not particularly easy to get unless you have a tall ladder and climbing irons or a chainsaw?

The thieves of yesteryear were not deterred by a 50ft climb, although I recall a lot of poles were shorter than this. Tall poles were used to go over bridges etc. otherwise just sufficient ground clearance was required in open areas. How frequent it was I cannot say. I believe they used to leave the block wire so the signalman was not immediately alerted to a theft at night. Pole route wires were I think around 200lb per mile of copper whereas cable conductors are 40 or 20 or less lbs per mile these days. So a few wires gave a good return and you do not have to strip off the insulation!

 

[PinzaC55]

The thieves of yesteryear were not deterred by a 50ft climb, although I recall a lot of poles were shorter than this. Tall poles were used to go over bridges etc. otherwise just sufficient ground clearance was required in open areas. How frequent it was I cannot say. I believe they used to leave the block wire so the signalman was not immediately alerted to a theft at night. Pole route wires were I think around 200lb per mile of copper whereas cable conductors are 40 or 20 or less lbs per mile these days. So a few wires gave a good return and you do not have to strip off the insulation!

So a 50ft climb for heavier wire is easier than just tying it to a landrover and yanking it out of the trough? And the early thieves were so expert that they left the block wire intact?
And how often did thieves remove pole route wires as opposed to today when cable theft is an almost daily occurrence?