Bee Network - query about destination screens

[py_megapixel]

I know this is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things, but it's a bit irritating that for all the harmonisation of branding and information provision, nobody has thought to standardise the route/destination displays on the outside of the buses. It appears that each operator is currently doing them their own way, which will leave scope for confusion when the whole network is up and running as buses to the same destination will phrase it differently on the display.

What makes this particularly strange to me is that the passenger information system inside the buses - where fitted - does appear to be standardised, and I'd assume they are part of the same system. But perhaps not.

 

[Class 466]

I know this is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things, but it's a bit irritating that for all the harmonisation of branding and information provision, nobody has thought to standardise the route/destination displays on the outside of the buses. It appears that each operator is currently doing them their own way, which will leave scope for confusion when the whole network is up and running as buses to the same destination will phrase it differently on the display.

What makes this particularly strange to me is that the passenger information system inside the buses - where fitted - does appear to be standardised, and I'd assume they are part of the same system. But perhaps not.

Personally the Stagecoach style with multiple scrolling via points is my preffered design

 

[WibbleWobble]

Personally the Stagecoach style with multiple scrolling via points is my preffered design

It's far too much information for someone to take in. Some have far too many via points, especially when there are long names like Salford Shopping City - stick to the main ones, and if there's not enough space then split it onto an additional page.

 

[mayneway]

I know this is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things, but it's a bit irritating that for all the harmonisation of branding and information provision, nobody has thought to standardise the route/destination displays on the outside of the buses. It appears that each operator is currently doing them their own way, which will leave scope for confusion when the whole network is up and running as buses to the same destination will phrase it differently on the display.

What makes this particularly strange to me is that the passenger information system inside the buses - where fitted - does appear to be standardised, and I'd assume they are part of the same system. But

It's far too much information for someone to take in. Some have far too many via points, especially when there are long names like Salford Shopping City - stick to the main ones, and if there's not enough space then split it onto an additional page.

The whole destination saga is a mess. We underwent vehicle familiarisation on all the incoming buses several weeks ago, including the Evoras. We were shown the destination controllers and the buses that have turned up all have completely different systems. Buses are being sent out with scraps of paper in the windscreen because the controller doesn’t work or doesn’t have the correct files on it.

As for layouts I think the previous Go North West layouts worked the best.

 

[py_megapixel]

The whole destination saga is a mess. We were VF’d on all the incoming vehicles several weeks ago, including the Evora’s. We were shown the destination controllers and the buses that have turned up all have completely different systems. Buses are being sent out with scraps of paper in the windscreen because the controller doesn’t work or doesn’t have the correct files on it.

As for layouts I think the previous GNW layouts worked the best.

Do the destination displays have a separate controller? I'd have thought that would have been handled by the ticket machine nowadays

I don't really care which particular layout they choose, I just think it would be a good idea for them to make it consistent across all Bee Network buses.

 

[mayneway]

Do the destination displays have a separate controller? I'd have thought that would have been handled by the ticket machine nowadays

I don't really care which particular layout they choose, I just think it would be a good idea for them to make it consistent across all Bee Network buses.

No destinations are changed by a controller in the cab. GNW always used one simple controller that anyone could use. We were VF’d on buses with the same controller but suddenly the influx of new buses all have different controllers and it’s a massive issue.

As for layouts I believe there is a standard layout. Diamond had to alter theirs a couple of times before TFGM were happy so hopefully it will come.

 

[Andyh82]

Destination displays on First Manchester buses seems to have been done in a rush - most are just a single line destination in all capitals, which is generally not the done thing

 

[py_megapixel]

They really have mucked up these displays, haven't they...

I ended up travelling on quite a few Bee Network buses today - mostly the ones run by Stagecoach - and I didn't see bits of paper in the windscreen, but I did see almost everything else. Different routes use different names for the same place. Some routes have the terminus in small text which is difficult to read as the bus approaches. On some buses, the side and rear displays were blank, or displaying only the route number when there was also room for the destination. I even saw one bus showing 135 at the front and Not in Service at the rear.

Not one of the interior information screens was working correctly. Most were stuck showing "Stop Requested" all the time, and bizarrely at the bottom right the last time someone pressed the stop button. (I assume this is meant to be a clock but for some reason was only updating when the button was pressed). A couple were just showing TfGM logos. One did seem as if it had been set up correctly at the start of the route, but it never recognised that the bus had actually set off on its the journey, apart from a single announcement as we approached the terminus.

The ex-London Scanias seem to have a different setup (on the outside - they don't have displays on the inside). I assume this has something to do with the fact they originally had roller-blinds and have been retrofitted with new destination equipment. Their display layout is similar to what Diamond and Go-Ahead are now using, so maybe everything will standardise on that eventually. Whatever the plan is, I really hope the current state of affairs is temporary.

 

[Andyh82]

I travelled on two of the 24 plate electric buses today on the 83, and both had the interior screens working and the audio announcements too

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

They really have mucked up these displays, haven't they...

I ended up travelling on quite a few Bee Network buses today - mostly the ones run by Stagecoach - and I didn't see bits of paper in the windscreen, but I did see almost everything else. Different routes use different names for the same place. Some routes have the terminus in small text which is difficult to read as the bus approaches. On some buses, the side and rear displays were blank, or displaying only the route number when there was also room for the destination. I even saw one bus showing 135 at the front and Not in Service at the rear.

Not one of the interior information screens was working correctly. Most were stuck showing "Stop Requested" all the time, and bizarrely at the bottom right the last time someone pressed the stop button. (I assume this is meant to be a clock but for some reason was only updating when the button was pressed). A couple were just showing TfGM logos. One did seem as if it had been set up correctly at the start of the route, but it never recognised that the bus had actually set off on its the journey, apart from a single announcement as we approached the terminus.

The ex-London Scanias seem to have a different setup (on the outside - they don't have displays on the inside). I assume this has something to do with the fact they originally had roller-blinds and have been retrofitted with new destination equipment. Their display layout is similar to what Diamond and Go-Ahead are now using, so maybe everything will standardise on that eventually. Whatever the plan is, I really hope the current state of affairs is temporary.

I think the Scanias are still using the GNW dest file as i'm pretty sure they have a different dest model to the other vehicles, which I think isn't able to scroll along the bottom like the other Stagecoach vehicles do. Just give them time to get the new fleet in order and all will be sorted out I'm sure. Plus the Scanias are only temporary anyway so they'll have just left them as is.

 

[py_megapixel]

I think the Scanias are still using the GNW dest file as i'm pretty sure they have a different dest model to the other vehicles, which I think isn't able to scroll along the bottom like the other Stagecoach vehicles do. Just give them time to get the new fleet in order and all will be sorted out I'm sure. Plus the Scanias are only temporary anyway so they'll have just left them as is.

Thing is the destinations on the Scanias are the least problematic of the lot - they work properly and are consistent with the tranche 1 ones. All the problems I've described were observed on other vehicles.

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

Thing is the destinations on the Scanias are the least problematic of the lot - they work properly and are consistent with the tranche 1 ones. All the problems I've described were observed on other vehicles.

Most of the scanias dests are broken so that can’t be true

 

[JD2168]

I have noticed the difference in blinds used by operators. The First ones seemed rather small & squashed in the middle whilst Go North West are standard non scrolling & Stagecoach have scrolling. I even saw a picture of a First 4 series StreetLite with just the route number shown in the middle of the front blind.

Quick question - are scrolling blinds allowed these days with DDA regulations or are they supposed to be static.

 

[M60lad]

I was one one of Diamonds new standard length MMC200s (30682) yesterday and the interior next stop screens seemed to be working but no audible announcements were being made which I found odd until I realised on looking on the destination/stop list that it had been programmed in reverse so on journeys to Trafford Centre it was showing stops in the direction of Wigan.

Obviously this is how it was programmed but I wonder how easy it would be for Diamond to have it reprogrammed so it would work properly?

 

[Man of Kent]

I have noticed the difference in blinds used by operators. The First ones seemed rather small & squashed in the middle whilst Go North West are standard non scrolling & Stagecoach have scrolling. I even saw a picture of a First 4 series StreetLite with just the route number shown in the middle of the front blind.

Quick question - are scrolling blinds allowed these days with DDA regulations or are they supposed to be static.

There are rules about the size of characters, but nothing on scrolling. However, if as reported above, some buses are showing all-capital destinations, this is an offence as the legislation requires that "Destination information shall not be written in capital letters only".

 

[py_megapixel]

Most of the scanias dests are broken so that can’t be true

It certainly is true that what I saw yesterday was the Scanias with them working fine, and a wide range of issues on the other vehicles.

 

[mayneway]

The issue with the Scania destinations is on some of them it’s not as simple as entering the service number and selecting the destination. The controller requires a unique code for each route number and destination. Months ago GNW added the Scania destination codes to each running board at QS and Heywood so it was never a problem but stagecoach haven’t and I don’t think anyone actually knows the codes anyway.
So when a driver takes off a bus and doesn’t have a clue how to set the destination or the code, they are told to set it to ‘idle’ and stick a piece of paper in the windscreen.

 

[Lucy Michela]

I think that the destination issue will always be an issue in a new franchise system where they didn't think that through. Because the only real offensive to the eye cases by 2022 was Vision doing the 480 displays with all caps too, TfGM probably didn't even consider it.

In London, they have a specified system, as they replaced the rollblinds with a controller that was to their specifications - essentially so all the new electronic displays use the correct font. However, I have noticed that this still comes with some slight differences - specifically it seems Caetano use a unique LED model for their displays, as the e.CityGolds have ever so slightly different designs to them.

But 100%, TfGM are putting too much trust in the companies to get both the displays, and also the PIS working properly. I had to email TfGM (need to check for the response actually), because even though we're now at T2 launched, I still see regular occurances of T1 new order buses with faulty PIS, or them not set up, and wondered why. If it is because it's down to the company (which would explain why I'm yet to see a route by Diamond with them on), then TfGM need to stamp down on misuse of them tbh

 

[AB93]

But 100%, TfGM are putting too much trust in the companies to get both the displays, and also the PIS working properly. I had to email TfGM (need to check for the response actually), because even though we're now at T2 launched, I still see regular occurances of T1 new order buses with faulty PIS, or them not set up, and wondered why. If it is because it's down to the company (which would explain why I'm yet to see a route by Diamond with them on), then TfGM need to stamp down on misuse of them tbh

The PIS is fully specified by, arranged and looked after by TfGM.

 

[Lucy Michela]

The PIS is fully specified by, arranged and looked after by TfGM.

I've seen their response and it seems that if so, the team in charge aren't too well focused on the E200MMCs